Dispute: Angela Stefanski - NES / FAMICOM / DISK - The Legend of Zelda - NTSC - Fastest Completion [1st Quest] - Player: Rodrigo Lopes - Score: 31:37.0

Is this a valid dispute?

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This poll is closed
  1. 11-20-2019, 02:23 AM
    This is test_post 1 by admin.
  2. 11-20-2019, 02:28 AM
    This is test_post 2 by admin.
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  3. 11-20-2019, 04:35 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post
    Rodrigo, (@Siliconian)
    [snip]
    However, I will provide them an opportunity now, if they so choose, to strongly stand behind their belief and commitment that this disputed record is invalid, and that you are absolutely unable to produce the performance video you claim to posses that can exonerate you.
    I wanted to acknowledge that ALL of the credit for the hard work and heavy lifting in this dispute review goes to a range of expert participants - I offered my name to "activate" this unconventional offer as I consider the presented evidence overwhelming and to remove the last barrier (presumably) from Lopes sharing the video.

    More a note/clarification for future members reading through this thread as I presume that Lopes truly understands this, but if not, read on - the Dispute Review rule that states a person whose score is disputed does not have to participate in the dispute itself is there to demonstrate that the onus of each review falls on the person(s) participating in offering/reviewing evidence - that a person cannot be harassed through a process where they are forced to respond to each and every vexatious dispute. But it is just that - a rule, it is NOT a PROHIBITION against someone from choosing to participate in their own defence AT ANY TIME, especially when the individual states they have critical evidence that can resolve the dispute in their favour. As others have said, it is undebatable that it is in one's self interest to share evidence that is claimed to exonerate oneself - no dispute rule is being violated (as suggested by Lopes) if an individual whose score is under dispute and claims to have exonerating evidence then shares it for the resolution of that dispute.
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  4. 11-20-2019, 05:55 AM
    Full disclosure: I consider cantaloupeme to be a good friend, have been following him for years, met him at the SG Live event, etc. So potentially there may be unconscious bias here.

    That being said, I would like to point out a couple of points:
    1) He enters Level 9 (fade to black) at approximately 26:51 on his timer (note that his timer did not start at TG rules timing, but a couple of seconds later; I will use his timer for the basis of determining the level 9 time, but note that he did retime it and submitted as 31:30, not the 31:28 his timer showed). He finished at 31:28 on his timer. That's 4:37 spent in level 9. Please note that all timings are approximate, as I don't download and frame count, so timings may be off by a second or two.
    1a) As a critic watching the video, there are a few things that could have gone faster in cantaloupeme's video as well. Gannon has a coin flip to spawn on the left or right after the stabs. He spawned on the right side twice, costing 4-5 seconds. In the silver arrow room, cantaloupeme places a bomb that ends up not damaging the enemies, so in theory that could have gone faster. I'm stating this to show that this is by no means a "god level 9".
    1b) Note the spawns on the walk to 9, and in the zol/like like room in level 9. These are the "classic" spawns for WR. Not the impossible spawns previously discussed.
    2) cantaloupeme has been streaming for years, and has a sub 29 "no up+A, glitches OK" run (5th place on the leaderboards), as well as a 33:09 in the "Traditional Dungeon Order, glitchless" run. For those unaware of that category, it is a glitchless category, just like TG rules, but requires completion of dungeons in level order (so 1, 2, 3...). This point is made to establish the fact that he is a top tier runner.
    3) The old "WR" video starts at the black part, and reaches Zelda at 5:09. Based on that logic, it means that he entered level 9 (after a revisit to the screen, see previous discussions about "Splicer's Spawn" being impossible without a reentry) at 26:28. So somehow, he was able to enter level 9 (with revisit) more than 23 seconds faster than cantaloupeme ("more than" because of the late start timer scenario that I haven't timed out).

    I will have to review the rest of cantaloupeme's video at another time to insure the rest of the video is legit. Based on my knowledge of him, and the fact that he live streamed his attempts (including a number of failed attempts), I believe it will hold up to verification, but technically I haven't watched the whole thing.

    Again, just wanted to point this out to Jace Hall and other TG staff, to demonstrate what it would have taken Rodrigo to do in order to outplay a top tier runner by ~30 seconds just to enter level 9 and have a very sub-optimal level 9.

    As previously stated, I am open to provide further feedback and respond to technical questions, if the TG staff has any.
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  5. 11-20-2019, 07:14 AM
    I fully agree to the terms put in place by Mr. Hall.
    Lauren Tyler
    Eternal Champion of Ragol
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  6. 11-20-2019, 07:40 AM
    although i am thankful for and like jace's post, i am not taking the bet. should i accidentally click like this is me formally saying i dont take the bet. however i am thankful because it still provides an opportunity even for me to use my decline as a way of again letting rodrigo no i dont hate him.

    i keep saying rodrigo my only anger at you is that you continue to say i hate you, and if you keep it up it will become true. There was a corrupt referee who every time we had even a mild disagreement accused me of hating him, he did this long enough that it eventualy became true. for now i am annoyed but dont hate you. heck, i'm not even completely sure you cheated hence my refusal to take the bet. i certainly have suspicions and your actions keep making me think more and more the accusations are true, but you know what even if you were proven to be a cheater i wouldnt hate you. sure id want the fake scores gone, but theres more to life than games.

    The only thing i'm angry about is the accusations of "haters' and the insulting idea that newer members are less important than older members. i can seperate scores from the person. i'll only judge your character based on how you're treating me and others here.
  7. 11-20-2019, 08:57 AM
    First off, thank you to Canaloupeme for taking the time to do a run following TG's rules to serve as a basis of comparison. The key takeaway from @fcoughlin 's last post is that now that a run has been done from a proven, top runner that follows TG's rule set several key comparisons and determinations can be made. The 4 cases that @starcrytas and I discussed earlier in this thread can now be safely discarded as far as determining if this run qualifies as single segment. The reason for this is if you watch Cantaloupme's run, and factoring in quality of play and expected human error, there is NO way that a human could ever afford to lose a minute or more doing any of the cases we mentioned and still get 31:37 under TG's rule set and still have the run qualify as single-segment while putting the enemies in the correct location. There is only ONE (1) possibility that could occur that would qualify this run as single-segment and this is what MUST appear on Mr. Lopes tape if he chooses to release it. He would have had to have done what @fcoughlin noted back in post #229 in which he would have bombed open level 9 and then walked back a screen to the right and then returned and entered level 9 normally all the while losing 10-15 seconds and risking unnecessary damage. And yet somehow, using the time parameters established by cantaloupeme's run, Lopes would have had to have entered level 9 around 23 seconds faster than cantaloupeme in order for his time to be justified factoring in that Lopes did not have an optimal level 9. If anything else other than the case described above were to show up on that tape well, then I don't think we'll need to consult a rocket scientist to make a determination of what happened. My gut feeling tells me that @Tg admin. and @Jace Hall are not going to allow this to go much further without making a decision. I would be surprised if this lasts even a few more days.
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  8. 11-20-2019, 09:42 AM
    I was told my video isn't showing up under submissions. I will resubmit.
  9. 11-20-2019, 10:51 AM
    I want to point out that Rodrigo said he could get sub 30 minutes with the right bomb drops.
    Even back on some SDA forum posts.

    https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/...da_speed_run20
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  10. 11-20-2019, 12:29 PM
    Twin Galaxies has posted comments made by referees discussing submissions (see the Space Tactics dispute). I assume these are non-public forums.

    Are there any posts amongst the referees discussing this particular submission? Do they record who reviewed the submission? Was it somebody from Team Metroid? A fellow Brazillian? Somebody else? Nobody?

    Enquiring minds want to know.
    Please forward all complains to the corruption and collusion department
    Creator of Arcade Retro Clock


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