Dispute: Angela Stefanski - NES / FAMICOM / DISK - The Legend of Zelda - NTSC - Fastest Completion [1st Quest] - Player: Rodrigo Lopes - Score: 31:37.0

Is this a valid dispute?

    This poll is closed
This poll is closed
  1. 11-17-2019, 05:05 PM
    Great analyst Mrturk and Fcouglin and welcome to Twin Galaxy
    JJTJohnnyLightning World #1 Racer on Arcade Game Fast & Furious Super Cars 1,803 Match Wins 49Cities
  2. 11-17-2019, 05:33 PM
    Here's something I received in a PM

    "As records on some of the hottest classics are changing hands or getting to ever near human perfection, [Legend of Zelda and Super Mario Brothers 1 to name 2 off hand] please note that they will be subject to more then usual verification. On such hotly contested titles, they will not only be verified by myself personally, but will also be verified by 2-3 other Senior Referee's to FULLY ENSURE that the Timing is flawless and that there will be NO DOUBT of the records legitimacy! This is not being said or done to doubt any gamer's accomplishment/skills whatsoever, but only to ensure there are no doubts and will eradicate any possibility of challenges that may occur."

    This quote comes from both these links, which covers the window that this run was done.

    March 27 2006 NES submission rules snapshot https://web.archive.org/web/20060327...pic.php?t=2059

    March 20th, 2008 NES submission rules
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/forumdi...assic-Consoles

    Rodrigo announced his speedrun on 05-12-2006 (May 12, 2006)
    The run was verified on 2006-07-09 (July 9, 2006)

    Kelly Flewin was on vacation according to this link:
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...l=1#post607029

    I highly doubt this run was verified by two or more referees.
    @RTM would had to have received the tape, verify, then send the tape to another NES referee, who seemed to be Kelly at the time. Kelly was on vacation at a Funspot event, which means it's unlikely Kelly even saw this tape.
    Likes SuperTailsChao, Ninglendo liked this post
  3. 11-17-2019, 05:39 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by starcrytas View Post
    Here's something I received in a PM

    @starcrytas

    Name:  screen-shot-2016-06-08-at-40038-pm.png
Views: 132
Size:  253.8 KB
    Thanks JJT_Defender thanked this post
    Likes starcrytas, JJT_Defender liked this post
  4. 11-17-2019, 05:59 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by fcoughlin View Post
    @Jace Hall

    So I can't definitely say with 1000% certainty that the run wasn't single segment (since the runner could have decided to throw away 10-15 seconds minimum there traversing the screen), but I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that the screen with the entrance to level 9 had to be visited at least twice during the run that ended with the camera recorded level 9 segment. It is 100% impossible for any runner to get that spawn pattern on the first time on the level 9 overworld screen.
    @fcoughlin thank you for stopping back in and for the time and effort you took to make the video. Very nicely done and I learned quite a bit myself watching it. Also, thank you for pointing out the additional method that @starcrytas and I overlooked involving bombing a hole in the cave and THEN backtracking and reentering which results in a smaller time loss than our initial estimates indicated from the other 4 cases we mentioned. If anyone is still confused after watching I think there are 2 major takeaways from this analysis:

    1). In order for this run to qualify as single-segment and therefore legal for TG, the player in question would have had to have visited the screen containing the cave to level 9 a minimum of 2 times.

    2). In order for this run to qualify as single-segment and therefore legal for TG, the player in question would have had to knowingly and willingly lost a minimum of 10 seconds bombing and then backtracking 1 screen as @fcoughlin noted and/or lost up to 2 minutes by using up+A or "save" once inside the cave followed by visiting the fairy pond and then returning to 9 normally as described by @starcrytas in post #36. In all cases this loss of time would not have benefited the player in any way as to leading to a faster time. Does it make sense to anyone reading this to purposely lose "speed" in a "speedrun?"

    With that that said I am going to pose 1 last question to @fcoughlin and then I hope you will not have to be bothered by this again. Would you agree or disagree with the following statement: In the case of an "optimized" path starting from level 8, then whistling to 1 and walking to 9, the only possible way the spawns seen in the 31:37 "world record final moments" video could occur if Link only visited the screen containing 9 ONCE would be for a splice to have been used somewhere prior to entering the screen containing the cave?
    Thanks Ninglendo, JJT_Defender, ersatz_cats thanked this post
    Likes starcrytas, JJT_Defender, ersatz_cats liked this post
  5. 11-17-2019, 06:15 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by mrturk View Post
    With that that said I am going to pose 1 last question to @fcoughlin and then I hope you will not have to be bothered by this again. Would you agree or disagree with the following statement: In the case of an "optimized" path starting from level 8, then whistling to 1 and walking to 9, the only possible way the spawns seen in the 31:37 "world record final moments" video could occur if Link only visited the screen containing 9 ONCE would be for a splice to have been used somewhere prior to entering the screen containing the cave?
    1) The "Splicer's Spawn", as I will refer to it, requires the Spawn Index to be at 5 upon entering Level 9.
    2) In order to achieve the Splicer's Spawn, this means that slot 4 must be open on the Overworld screen for an enemy to potentially be placed there.
    3) The entrance to level 9 on the overworld has only two entrances, from the left, and from the right. Therefore, we do not need to consider a top or bottom entrance in this hypothetical.
    4) Entering from the left (from the potion shop west of 9), slot 4 is in the middle of a mountain tile. Therefore, it can never be achieved from that side.
    5) Entering from the right (as you must when you come up), slot 4 falls on the actual entrance to Level 9, a bombable tile. An enemy may only spawn here if the tile has already been bombed.
    6) Synthesizing the above knowledge, it is therefore IMPOSSIBLE to achieve Splicer's Spawn with a single visit to the screen containing the overworld entrance to 9. The entrance must be bombed, and there must be a subsequent exit/entry to that screen from the right hand side in order to place an enemy in slot 4 to potentially achieve Splicer's Spawn.

    I believe, therefore, that your statement is correct. Splicer's Spawn cannot occur with only one visit to the overworld screen containing level 9. Two visits (both entering from the right) are required to do so; one to open the entrance, unlocking slot 4, and another such entrance to actually generate spawns that end with the ninth slot on 4, enabling Splicer's Spawn.
    Thanks mrturk, Ninglendo, JJT_Defender, ersatz_cats thanked this post
    Likes mrturk, JJT_Defender, ersatz_cats liked this post
  6. 11-17-2019, 06:24 PM
    Adding one additional bit that I did not cover in the video, but investigated subsequently (and would like to insure is on the public record):

    Exiting a level would cause Link to reappear on the overworld, with the game treating him as if he had scrolled down onto the screen. I am including a screen shot of what the spawn slots would look like. Slot 4 does appear open, but the code for the game checks (likely to be fair to the player) and will not spawn enemies in a slot if that slot is too close to where Link is. For entrances from sides of the screen, this is moot, but for entrances from caves, that can matter. In this case, Slot 4 is too close to the entrance to 9, so no enemies can appear there (I just attempted to exit the cave with all 9 possible spawn indices, and that slot is skipped, resulting in only a 0, 6, or 8 on level exit).

    So long story short (too late!), the Splicer's Spawn cannot be achieved through any combination of exit/entry of Level 9. It can only come from an entrance from the right AFTER the entrance has in fact been bombed.
    Name:  image.png
Views: 142
Size:  115.6 KB
    Thanks mrturk, Ninglendo, JJT_Defender, ersatz_cats thanked this post
    Likes mrturk, JJT_Defender, ersatz_cats liked this post
  7. 11-17-2019, 06:30 PM
    And to have screen shots to supplement the video (and not editing any posts so there's no concern about edits):

    Entering from the right side, the potential slots:
    Name:  image.png
Views: 131
Size:  118.0 KB

    And entering from the left, potential slots:
    Name:  image.png
Views: 132
Size:  121.3 KB

    Again, to even be able to have the ability to achieve Splicer's Spawn, Slot 4 must be an open slot with no obstacle (and not too close to Link). From the left, and on exiting the level, Slot 4 is not valid for enemy placement. For entering from the right, slot 4 is only valid IF the entrance to level 9 has already been bombed open. Thus, Splicer's Spawn can only occur via multiple visits to this screen; it is 100% impossible without two visits.
  8. 11-17-2019, 07:49 PM
    Just asking just because someone has too. If he were to bomb the entrance to level 9, whistle to 6 and collect the master sword, can he then whistle back to level 9? Would that create the spawn? Yes, I realize this scenario is not optimum but it's really that huge of a time loss. Ideally you would grab it before/after level 6, but the above scenario would count as how many screen transitions? Enter level 9, exit, whistle to 6, go down, left, up, enter sword, exit sword, whistle to 9, enter. 25-30 seconds lost. Not even sure if can whistle to level 9 because I have never needed to but I'm sure someone would know. Just asking if it's possible.

    Again, while not ideal, that scenario (if possible) is probably the least time costly out of any other mentioned scenario and it could cause that spawn...again, if it's possible...and if he did it...but we will never know how he did it but I did think of it so I'm asking.
  9. 11-17-2019, 07:51 PM
    Actually, would walking from lvl 1 to lvl 9, bombing and entering, then walking to level 6 and completing the game be faster? You could warp straight from lvl 8 to lvl 9 with the whistle, saving you the walk time from lvl 1? I don't know, just spit balling possible scenarios where going to lvl 9 first then back tracking would make sense.
  10. 11-17-2019, 10:19 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185 View Post
    Actually, would walking from lvl 1 to lvl 9, bombing and entering, then walking to level 6 and completing the game be faster? You could warp straight from lvl 8 to lvl 9 with the whistle, saving you the walk time from lvl 1? I don't know, just spit balling possible scenarios where going to lvl 9 first then back tracking would make sense.
    You cannot whistle directly to 9. Whistle mechanics:

    1) Consider the numbers 1-8 in a circle. So 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-1-2...
    2) At the start of the game, you’re at 1.
    3) When you blow the recorder, you go either clockwise or counterclockwise around the circle to the next triforce piece that you have. The direction you go depends on the direction you face when you whistle. If you face up or right, you increase your counter to the next triforce (so 1...2...3... etc). Facing down or left decreases the counter (so 1... 8... 7... 6...). You can do multiple blows before the whirlwind hits you. So if you collect the first five triforces, face right and blow the recorder twice, you end up at level 3.
    4) Recorder can never take you to 9. You have to walk there (getting trapped by the spawns as discussed above).
    Thanks JJT_Defender thanked this post
Page 24 of 41 FirstFirst ... 14 22 23 24 25 26 34 ... LastLast
Results 231 to 240 of 407
Page 24 of 41 FirstFirst ... 14 22 23 24 25 26 34 ... LastLast
Join us