Dispute: Angela Stefanski - NES / FAMICOM / DISK - The Legend of Zelda - NTSC - Fastest Completion [1st Quest] - Player: Rodrigo Lopes - Score: 31:37.0

Is this a valid dispute?

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This poll is closed
  1. 11-19-2019, 11:26 AM
    Technically I fall under the "newbie" category, because I've got enough posts on this board to count on a single hand. I come from the era of zeldaspeedruns.com and speedrun.com, so I completely admit that I don't have a stake in this game. However, I care about the truth about Zelda, and with the Zelda knowledge in the community, as an expert in the game, I am reporting on what I see.

    I don't intend to name call, I don't need to slander anyone. I'm not going to say "Jace, you're an (*##(@*& idiot if you don't ban him". I have a strong opinion on this matter, based on the evidence, but at the end of the day, this thread is likely to be my only contribution to this site at the time being. Perhaps as the wounds of TG's past start to heal, I'll consider submitting here as well when I speed run.

    What I want to see @Siliconian address is simple: I laid out, using the algorithms and data obtained from the Zelda 1 ROM, that it is impossible for the spawn pattern seen in the "World Record Level 9" video without a second visit to the Level 9 screen. Not "you can take a different path to get there and get the spawns". The spawn algorithmically cannot occur without the screen being bombed open, exited, and re-entered.
    @Siliconian , please address this. If you don't want to provide the whole video, then give 3-5 minutes showing the last level you did prior to 9, and the walk to level 9; you've shown you have the technological capabilities to capture that much of the video, and I'm even willing to take a web cam video of that part. I'll be glad to corroborate that with our knowledge of the game, and if it's possible that the entry to 9 would align with your video, I'll admit it. But I need to see the preceding level, and walk to 9, because with the evidence in front of us right now, it's impossible that the uploaded "World Record 31:37" level 9 came from a single segment run without significant backtracking, which is something you wouldn't do in a World Record run.

    If any TG staff would like to message me with further questions, I'm glad to elaborate further on the technical aspects.
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  2. 11-19-2019, 12:12 PM
    I find Rodrigo's behavior and dodging to be quite perturbing. I also find it funny that once TGSAP became a thing and the community had to share video evidence that Rodrigo just all of the sudden stopped submitting to high profile games and instead started to submit 1,000s of mobile games and mini games.
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  3. 11-19-2019, 01:29 PM
    there was one point rodrigo made -- which in full context i think is flimsy -- but in a vacuum makes sense.

    you cant have people keep making false accusations and expect him to defend himself score after score after score. of course thats not whats happening here. so far either all the disputes have been proven true with his acknowledment there was an error, or the dispute is still open. Correct me if i'm wrong, but theres no dispute where he's hard to go through the effort of having to dig out a tape to be proven right only to find himself challenged again

    now, as much as i dont think anyone should have to handle dozens of incorrect disputes, i also dont think one person launching a flimsy excuse should give the gamer immunity from someone else launching a more valid one. to have some sort of compromise TG would need a system where people dont have to answer every accusation, nor does proving one dispute give them immunity, but rather some sort of system where a qualified issue can only make on one mistake

    so, we have jace hall actually stepping in and saying the tape would help. does jace step in for dispute after dispute after dispute? hardly. if jace asks for the tape, and the tape proves rodrigo's innocence, i'd say at that point going forward rodrigo's earned enough respect that even jace himself cant ever ask for a tape again.

    noone's suggesting you deal with a million false accuastions that never end rodrigo. we're asking you to prove your innocence just once. have you in any of the disputes even once proved the dispute was a mistake? you may have shown the wrong score wasnt your fault, but thats still a dispute being valid and shows the dispute launchers are being reasonable. if your'e as innocent as you say, then for once actually prove a dispute valid, and then forever more you'll be able to point to this to end future complaints
  4. 11-19-2019, 04:37 PM
    Well, now that everyone has fired off their salvos and the smoke has cleared a bit I figured I can take off my hard hat and come out of the bomb shelter for a while. I was going to start by addressing @Siliconian 's post but I think everyone has already done a good enough job of refuting just about every single sentence of that. In fact that post had about as much relevancy to this dispute as the original wall post directed at @starcrytas which basically means it has 0 relevance. Quite frankly, Mr. Lopes when this dispute started I think it was a case of "IF you would do anything" but I think with the events and evidence of the past 4 months and especially the last 2 weeks it has become more of a case of "you MUST do something." IF there was ever a time to defend even ONE of your 5800 scores then that time should be NOW. Even the most secret, introverted gamer would choose to defend themselves in this situation if they claimed to have a "legit submission" in the face of what has been brought against them. Otherwise, if you continue on your current path, you may want to think about early retirement and/or a career change. So. from here on out I would urge everyone involved in this dispute to ignore anything and everything Mr. Lopes posts unless he chooses to address the explicit, transparent, algorithmic, and undisputed evidence that @fcoughlin and I have brought against this submission being legitimate. Every combination, permutation, possibility, excuse, possible corrupt verification, incorrect dates etc. etc. etc. etc. has already been discussed. Nothing else needs to be said in this dispute until Mr. Lopes addresses the evidence against him period.
  5. 11-19-2019, 04:57 PM
    Pen-is!!! And you said nothing else needed to be said in this thread...I had too. Haha, sorry, I just couldn't help myself.
  6. 11-19-2019, 04:58 PM
    Just in case TG has a problem with my last statement. It has as much relevance to this dispute as anything Rodrigo has added as to why this dispute is unfair. Carry on.
  7. 11-19-2019, 06:05 PM
    Again, I would recommend that we move away from childish insults/name calling, and focus on the matter at hand. We have a disputed claim. The facts have been presented indicating that parts of the run could not have happened the way that they were seen. At this point, barring new evidence, it is time for the TG Staff to come to their decision. No new evidence is likely to be provided by the accused. The in-depth algorithmic analysis has been provided (though again, I offer to answer questions on that side of things if needed).

    Let's not be name calling or throwing out random insults. We're adults here (or people nearing adult age). Let's stay with the facts.
  8. 11-19-2019, 06:18 PM
    That was no insult aimed at anyone. It just needed to be said. As you can see, I'm really worried about my maturity level.

    Yes, I agree there is literally no more evidence that's needed to removed this score. Thank you and the other Zelda experts for coming over and helping out.

    See people, there can be a bridge built between different communities. You just have to respect what the other has to offer and leave it at that. Balls
  9. 11-19-2019, 08:00 PM
    So Rodrigo decides to make a post. Except instead of offering any type of evidence or proof that his time is valid, he just goes on a long emotional rant.

    Now this is just me, but going on a long rant instead of trying to offer evidence is a clear sign of guilt in my opinion.

    Listen, Rodrigo, if you want this to end, then just provide some solid proof to us. It's that easy.
    Lauren Tyler
    Eternal Champion of Ragol
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  10. 11-19-2019, 08:34 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Siliconian View Post
    I am Rodrigo Lopes, I will be banned for a suspicious Zelda cheat, I will lose 8,300 records....this is unfair!
    Rodrigo,

    I made it all the way through your whole statement.

    Despite your frequent assertions that there is no basis for this dispute, the evidence against your time is pretty damning. As an outsider to TG, I believe it warrants full removal from the leaderboard and a lifetime ban. However, since it's abundantly clear you are still in possession of the tape, if it somehow proves your innocence, if it shows a play pattern consistent with the enemy spawns which conforms to the time for which you were credited, I'd be interested in seeing that tape and taking it into consideration. I'm interested in the truth, wherever it leads. I'm not a hater. I just don't like cheaters.

    If you did knowingly falsify a submission, and if you did continue to double down when caught, then all your scores should be wiped. Doesn't matter that there's 8,000 of them. Doesn't matter if you've worked with TG for 20 years. Doesn't matter if you spent countless hours verifying scores. Doesn't matter how hard it used to be to submit scores. Doesn't matter if you have seniority over your accusers. Doesn't matter if your accusers don't submit scores themselves. Doesn't matter how high your ESI or TG credibility is. Doesn't matter that other disputes went nowhere. Doesn't matter if you didn't get the congratulations you were expecting. Doesn't matter what TG's priorities are. Doesn't matter which other players have or haven't left this website. Doesn't matter what Scott Stilphen says. Doesn't matter how many scores were before or after TGSAP. Basically everything you talked about is a distraction from the core question: Did you cheat? Cheating is a betrayal of trust so serious, it would invalidate anything else you've had to contribute. No one is more important than the gaming community. Cheating simply cannot be tolerated in any way, shape, or form.

    Again, the evidence strongly indicates you cheated. Furthermore, the tape you possess either exonerates you, or it proves your guilt even further. Your choice to defend your score while withholding that tape tells me you know what that tape would reveal, and that you don't consider it advantageous to publish it. You're allowed to withhold testimony or evidence you claim would exonerate you, but you can still be found guilty in your absence.

    Despite what Jace oddly indicated before about removing only the pre-TGSAP scores, if you don't produce a legitimate, complete tape of this run, then I hope any and all scores/times of yours are removed from any and all leaderboards, and you can be left asking yourself if lying to the community for years was really worth it.
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