Post Verdict Dispute Discussion: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong - Points [Hammer Allowed] - Player: Billy L Mitchell - Score: 1,062,800

  1. 08-05-2020, 10:31 AM
    Toxicity = This thread.

    There really is only one person who is a constant negative no matter the issue. It's JJT and at times AD. 98% of the time they are not adding anything positive to the topic, it's usually pretty harsh and negative. That's just a reality. Everybody else is pretty reasonable depending on the subject, this one being of course one of the exceptions.
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  2. 08-05-2020, 10:54 AM
    Accidentally posted this on another thread so I'll bring it back here. Did Sroka really get banned for calling PSP a two faced liar and jealous? Are we know walking on egg shells at this point because moderation will be that strict or can a back bone still be used to support the stressful words of life? I'm siding with @Ninglendo on this. There have been far, far worse said about other things. While I realize @sincerely franny you may have overlooked it to the point it's now gone to far, calling someone a liar and jealous about something isn't much IMO.

    I guess I hope the people who jab one another in good fun will still allowed because some of us do have a back bone and a sense of humor about things.
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  3. 08-05-2020, 02:47 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185 View Post
    Accidentally posted this on another thread so I'll bring it back here. Did Sroka really get banned for calling PSP a two faced liar and jealous? Are we know walking on egg shells at this point because moderation will be that strict or can a back bone still be used to support the stressful words of life? I'm siding with @Ninglendo on this. There have been far, far worse said about other things. While I realize @sincerely franny you may have overlooked it to the point it's now gone to far, calling someone a liar and jealous about something isn't much IMO.

    I guess I hope the people who jab one another in good fun will still allowed because some of us do have a back bone and a sense of humor about things.
    Jabbing in good fun is apparent and allowed.

    It's not so much that people need to be walking on egg shells. They just need to stay on the topic at hand and not bring outside animosities into the conversation when they are unnecessary. That and not call people name with ill intent. These bans were not severe in any way - It was just 24h cooldown time. As I said, I don't enjoy banning people so I try to be fair about the punishment matching the offense.
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  4. 08-05-2020, 03:17 PM
    Why are you harrassing and talking about me. Why bring me up in this matter, I have nothing to do with this. I did not bother you.
    Thegamer1185 just stop this nonsence. Ok
    Thank you for listening.

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185 View Post
    Toxicity = This thread.

    There really is only one person who is a constant negative no matter the issue. It's JJT and at times AD. 98% of the time they are not adding anything positive to the topic, it's usually pretty harsh and negative. That's just a reality. Everybody else is pretty reasonable depending on the subject, this one being of course one of the exceptions.
    Last edited by JJT_Defender; 08-05-2020 at 03:22 PM.
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  5. 08-05-2020, 04:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by JJT_Defender View Post
    Why are you harrassing and talking about me. Why bring me up in this matter, I have nothing to do with this. I did not bother you.
    Thegamer1185 just stop this nonsence. Ok
    Thank you for listening.
    Juan, this not harassment. You have been known to stir up commotion.

    @thegamer1185 try not to point fingers. We have a fairly small community so the areas of negativity are apparent.
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  6. 08-05-2020, 04:05 PM
    for what its worth, heres the original statement from facebook copied to the adjudication thread that evener pointed out some of expressed skepticism on:

    Quote Originally Posted by PSP facebook
    A personal statement. I'm hoping someone will do the right thing and direct people to this so it may be taken into consideration.


    It's been brought to my attention that the 2010 Donkey Kong score listed by Billy Mitchell has come under the scrutiny of the Twin Galaxies Challenge System that I've recently criticized. While I still think old scores should not be removed from the database based on the opinions of the general public, in this case that community has valid reason to doubt the legitimacy of that score.


    Why? Because it was entered without proper verification.


    I've told this story before, so I'm going to do the short version here in hopes that people actually note and use the information this time.


    In 2010, DK had more verification rules that other titles simply due to the desire to avoid further controversy over title changes.
    Days before the Big Bang 2010 event, I personally received a voicemail from Mitchell informing me he had "an exclusive" for me and to call him back. So I did.


    He told me that he had set the DK and DKJ records at an arcade near him and that it was witnessed by a TG referee. He asked me to write the article that announced these accomplishments to the world so that it could help draw media attention to his induction into the Hall of Fame in Iowa that upcoming weekend.


    For six hours I received calls with a variety of people on the calls, literally dictating to me how I was going to write the article. Mitchell took offense to the part where I stated that it was "pending official verification" by telling me "it's verified and official now". At that point - when I finally got a word in - I declined to have anything to do with it.


    I woke up the next day to learn Mitchell was instead just calling a press conference at the Big Bang to announce it. This was news to David Nelson when I called him about it that afternoon, and he wasn't happy.


    The first day of the Big Bang event came, and David went to have a chat with Mitchell about this. He came back to me frustrated, telling me that Mitchell said "If you don't publish the score, I'm going to ***** ya".


    So it came down to a simple vote. All then-TG referees that were at the event (most of the staff at the time was there) went into a hotel room and voted via a private ballot on if we were or were not going to accept the scores. Billy won the vote.
    Pete Bouvier almost overrode it, but that's when Mark Kiehl popped up at the hotel to give me a disc with his Donkey Kong Junior record on it. Essentially, Mitchell was set to announce a record score he'd already lost and technically never set. That got Bouvier to spin around the other way.


    He wasn't proud of it, but there it was. Billy told the TG staff what to put, Pete said to do it, and even the "Because I'm Billy Mitchell" line was faked, created by the writer of the article rather than Mitchell. To quote Pete Bouvier, the scores were entered "to shut him up"


    So yeah... Billy Mitchell's 2010 Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Junior scores were entered into the Twin Galaxies database simply to placate him.. .because he'd brought pressure to do so.


    Worse yet, we were told to defend accepting the scores, and given that Bouvier owed me $4,000 I needed at the time, I went along with it. Had I known he'd pay us only $800 of it after nearly five months of waiting, I'd have gone ahead and spilled it.
    But it's also one of the reasons - along with that shorted payout - that I quit in early 2011. It's also the point in time where I began to question the legend of Billy Mitchell. While some like to defend him against me claiming I have some personal grudge... that's not it, people. It's going through this and seeing other instances that suggest he's done this to many that make me question most of what he says. He tried - and failed - to order me as to how to write an article about him... but he successfully lobbied to have scores entered and press created for him with ZERO validation as per the rules at that time.


    I'm sick over not standing up for it back then. Then again, standing up against that stuff now gets me heat, too. Either way I guess.
    But at the end of the day, I have serious doubts about the validity of that 2010 score and while I still believe that Challenge System is the wrong idea... in this case I can personally attest to the fact that there are numerous reasons to question it.
    I know there are people there who don't care for what I have to say about anything, but there it is. I wouldn't feel right if I didn't bring this back up now, as I think there are valid reasons to question that score and the even



    Evener correctly points out a lot of this stuff was later confirmed by others, i would like to again point out, that despite the extreme detail, right down to the exact sum of money that resulted in psp going along with story he knew was false (note it wasnt for an NDA in his first version but rather was on a belief it would affect his pay), yet despite all that detail nothing about Todd not being allowed to referee. That alone really is my hang up. I never heard mention of this secret meeting where pete told psp before that todd couldnt verify, not even just a few years when the nda was over and this original post was made.

    i will say evener made a good point that we dont always know when info will be relevant. also a point i like to make is i have no problem using wikipedia as a first stop, and then confirm with better sources for the stuff that matters. so sure, i guess i agree its good to remember this, but at the same time if we reach a point where this is info is actionable then its also worth remember this info needs much better confirmation.
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  7. 08-05-2020, 04:34 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    now I'm sure people will take this admission and throw it in my face, but hey, I can't very well claim to be a truth seeker if I don't admit error

    the part of his story I take issue with is his secret knowledge that chief evangelists weren't allowed to referee scores. that's it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    I never heard mention of this secret meeting where Pete told psp before that Todd couldn't verify, not even just a few years when the nda was over and this original post was made.

    I will say evener made a good point that we don't always know when info will be relevant. also a point I like to make is I have no problem using Wikipedia as a first stop, and then confirm with better sources for the stuff that matters. so sure, I guess I agree it's good to remember this, but at the same time if we reach a point where this is info is actionable then it's also worth remember this info needs much better confirmation.
    Talking past each other isn't an uncommon issue in communication. It bugs me personally since I like to make sure everyone's on the same page, but you can't do much with people that choose to be stubborn. That said, being able to admit you're wrong is something not everyone is capable of. As Evener stated there were other people who have admitted they were wrong about this situation and changed sides. I really don't think anybody rational enough will hold it against you. The only people that will likely "throw it in your face" are either those that find this alleged truth to not be favorable or those who always had a problem with you. As long as people here work together towards the truth admitting a fault is nothing to worry about.

    I do feel that your issue is a fair objection. It seems like the ultimate factor into whether this score has any legitimacy as far as adjudication goes. Testimony by itself really can only go so far, falling out of either side's control for its validity, but I'll let one of my favorite quotes speak for itself:

    "It doesn't matter how many underhanded tricks a person uses... The truth will always find a way to make itself known. The only thing we can do is to fight with the knowledge we hold and everything we have. Erasing the paradoxes one by one... It's never easy... We claw and scratch for every inch. But we will always eventually reach that one single truth. This I promise you."
    Last edited by Streetwize; 08-05-2020 at 04:41 PM.
  8. 08-05-2020, 06:47 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185 View Post
    Accidentally posted this on another thread so I'll bring it back here. Did Sroka really get banned for calling PSP a two faced liar and jealous? Are we know walking on egg shells at this point because moderation will be that strict or can a back bone still be used to support the stressful words of life? I'm siding with @Ninglendo on this. There have been far, far worse said about other things. While I realize @sincerely franny you may have overlooked it to the point it's now gone to far, calling someone a liar and jealous about something isn't much IMO.

    I guess I hope the people who jab one another in good fun will still allowed because some of us do have a back bone and a sense of humor about things.
    I was banned? Cool, I guess. Yes I went on sarcastic and attacking post. yes I was calling a PSP a liar. His comments IMO shouldn't be considered with any vaildity whether it helps or not for clarity of this dispute. That is what I should have said instead of restating a lie of his that involved me personally. Seeing him post around here brings back all the memories of him bashing TG or TGI after he didn't agree with Pete B on other issues. Making it harder for us other volunteers at TGI at the time to try to keep it float. When it's leadership/ owner was flawed. His Youtube videos with topics about TG and facebook posts from him undermining and discrediting TG for his own personal gain/agenda.

    He could of course just had left TG, But noooooooo, he had to starts fires everywhere to try to burn it to the ground. And for that, IMO his word around here shouldn't be trusted. As it could be partially true or all true, But why waste time on someone says who said,

    "I have no interest in TG or Mitchell or high scores or anyone here, quite frankly."
  9. 08-05-2020, 09:24 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by timmell View Post
    I was banned? Cool, I guess. Yes I went on sarcastic and attacking post. yes I was calling a PSP a liar. His comments IMO shouldn't be considered with any vaildity whether it helps or not for clarity of this dispute. That is what I should have said instead of restating a lie of his that involved me personally. Seeing him post around here brings back all the memories of him bashing TG or TGI after he didn't agree with Pete B on other issues. Making it harder for us other volunteers at TGI at the time to try to keep it float. When it's leadership/ owner was flawed. His Youtube videos with topics about TG and facebook posts from him undermining and discrediting TG for his own personal gain/agenda.

    He could of course just had left TG, But noooooooo, he had to starts fires everywhere to try to burn it to the ground. And for that, IMO his word around here shouldn't be trusted. As it could be partially true or all true, But why waste time on someone says who said,

    "I have no interest in TG or Mitchell or high scores or anyone here, quite frankly."
    ...........
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  10. 08-05-2020, 09:50 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by timmell View Post
    He could of course just had left TG, But noooooooo, he had to starts fires everywhere to try to burn it to the ground. And for that, IMO his word around here shouldn't be trusted. As it could be partially true or all true, But why waste time on someone says who said,

    "I have no interest in TG or Mitchell or high scores or anyone here, quite frankly."
    The same could be leveled at yourself, myself, Ninglendo, Datagod and numerous others. If you're not seeing that, you're probably still stuck in the rut of tearing it down.
    Lots of 1sts to be surpassed: what are you waiting for? Play the game, submit the score...
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