Post Verdict Dispute Discussion: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong - Points [Hammer Allowed] - Player: Billy L Mitchell - Score: 1,062,800

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  1. 05-27-2021, 04:47 PM
    I also want to make clear that I was not referring to you about people making conspiracies. I apologize if you felt like you were being called out on such. It was not my intent. That said, I was under the impression that what FBX spoke up on a long time ago was somewhat common knowledge due to Apollo Legend covering it, and I actually found the post he made on one of the old Atari forums myself while doing my own research before it was brought to light in a now-deleted video.
    That said, I still stand by the facts I learned while looking into this. The Morrow brothers have certainly made efforts to expose Todd within the rules of Old TG. They actually did manage to remove at least one of Todd's scores (I think it was 2600 Donkey Kong) after the lead ref at the time concluded the tapes to supposedly verify such never really existed. There was also Robert admitting there were plans to close the dispute and he was allowed to make one final post. I don't remember the full details, but I'm going to presume TG was going to wait for that event they planned for Todd to finally scrutinize his time.
    Last edited by Streetwize; 05-27-2021 at 04:50 PM.
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  2. 05-27-2021, 04:54 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetwize View Post
    Have you forgotten that they spoke up on the forums a long time ago only to be met with backlash by people calling both him and his brother haters and jealous for any reason they could muster to defend their idol? Despite them providing plenty of evidence, especially empirical and undeniable evidence behind his Barnstorming record at the time being faster than no movement was made at all?
    Now ask yourself who was the head ref back then.
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  3. 05-27-2021, 04:58 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetwize View Post
    I also want to make clear that I was not referring to you about people making conspiracies. I apologize if you felt like you were being called out on such. It was not my intent. That said, I was under the impression that what FBX spoke up on a long time ago was somewhat common knowledge due to Apollo Legend covering it, and I actually found the post he made on one of the old Atari forums myself while doing my own research before it was brought to light in a now-deleted video.
    That said, I still stand by the facts I learned while looking into this. The Morrow brothers have certainly made efforts to expose Todd within the rules of Old TG. They actually did manage to remove at least one of Todd's scores (I think it was 2600 Donkey Kong) after the lead ref at the time concluded the tapes to supposedly verify such never really existed. There was also Robert admitting there were plans to close the dispute and he was allowed to make one final post. I don't remember the full details, but I'm going to presume TG was going to wait for that event they planned for Todd to finally scrutinize his time.
    thank you, i also realized you were going off a vaguebook snip at me, and honeslty your response was good and accurate.

    you do have one inaccuracy here that goes back to how the right thing for wrong reason can leave wounds. it wasnt the dk score. you'd have to ask them which it was, probably barnstorming

    todd's atari dk score wasnt just crazy high, it was truly impossible, impossible ending digits. but of course the impossible ending digits was no reason to remove it. the idea was the game became too hard after 800k to continue, not an exact kill screen, but diminsihing returns where you cant last long. rtm claimed to have a cart that has this difficult increase. todds cart didnt exhibit that behavior, so todd's score was removed for being a prototype cart. years went by, and it turns out lots of others people had a cart like todds, but noone else had a cart like rtm's. once the score removal could no longer be defended as an alt cart then the lack of video excuse was given. again in truth yes this score should've been removed due to the impossible last digits, the final excuse was also fine, but the goal post moving along the way led to plenty of heartache. its important to do things for the right reason.
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
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  4. 05-27-2021, 05:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo View Post
    Now ask yourself who was the head ref back then.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20130528...threadid=89222
    I misquoted. It was "lead referee", and one of the lead referees at that.
  5. 05-27-2021, 05:02 PM
    Here is another fun exercise. Ask yourself who was the ref that claimed they saw one of Todd's impossible Barnstorming times with their own eyes. That's a good one. The collusion I speak of is being told by the current owner that I'm not allowed to bring up how questionable score entries (Kaboom and others) got entered in the database. If I'm not allowed to ask questions about scores regarding a key defense witness to the ongoing trial then I would say that is by all means collusion.
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  6. 05-27-2021, 05:14 PM
    heres a 2006 link talking about the donkey kong saga (your link is 2016) and this is from tg itself
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/116199

    there was a heck of a lot more drama invovled in that score than just missing tapes. missing tapes never came up until all the other excuses came out. i mean really, do you think there were tapes for any of the other fake scores todd had? so how come only missing tapes on todds score that beat RTMs score suddenly missing tapes mattered and was reason for removal back then.

    so yes, with the long history of the overlap of those 2 on todd scores, sometimes defending sometimes removing todds scores you can imagine why it might reopen old wounds when he got the last word, a very long last word at that.
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
  7. 05-27-2021, 05:17 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo View Post
    Here is another fun exercise. Ask yourself who was the ref that claimed they saw one of Todd's impossible Barnstorming times with their own eyes. That's a good one. The collusion I speak of is being told by the current owner that I'm not allowed to bring up how questionable score entries (Kaboom and others) got entered in the database. If I'm not allowed to ask questions about scores regarding a key defense witness to the ongoing trial then I would say that is by all means collusion.
    You really are deflecting. Only one of the Morrow brothers can properly answer the question you are so desperate for me to answer, but the referee who constantly backed Todd's fraudulent records was none other than Corcoran. I have no idea what the hell you're trying to insinuate, but you really do seem desperate for leverage. I'll give you this much: an element of unfairness does exist regarding the inability to scrutinize Robert's statements. I can, however, easily throw all that back on you just from the corrupt nature of TG regarding their big names, including the person you still wish to defend. Let me remind you about how harshly people were treated for even expressing the slightest doubt in Todd. You don't need to be a detective to sniff out the lies Todd made when he spoke up about getting banned from TG. I'm not going to let you make me this thread though, as much as you probably want me to speak up on it.
  8. 05-27-2021, 05:20 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetwize View Post
    You really are deflecting. Only one of the Morrow brothers can properly answer the question you are so desperate for me to answer, but the referee who constantly backed Todd's fraudulent records was none other than Corcoran. I have no idea what the hell you're trying to insinuate, but you really do seem desperate for leverage. I'll give you this much: an element of unfairness does exist regarding the inability to scrutinize Robert's statements. I can, however, easily throw all that back on you just from the corrupt nature of TG regarding their big names, including the person you still wish to defend. Let me remind you about how harshly people were treated for even expressing the slightest doubt in Todd. You don't need to be a detective to sniff out the lies Todd made when he spoke up about getting banned from TG. I'm not going to let you make me this thread though, as much as you probably want me to speak up on it.
    Again, I'm not nor ever did defend Todd. How is it defending Todd when in my last comment I said his score was impossible?
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  9. 05-27-2021, 05:26 PM
    I see this from the 2012 link of fbx's memories
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    this is not mutually exclusive with the tg documentation. fbx could've well informed rtm, rtm could've then left that part off and only talked about how it beat his own score, goal post moved several times, finally settling on removed tapes, and then ending and starting as fbx remembers.

    i am curious though, who are these professional atari donkey kong players and what are their scores that led him to question todds score? I didnt realize atari donkey kong was so competitive that it had professionals. I'd definitley be interested in a tangent to learn more about that
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
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  10. 05-27-2021, 05:35 PM
    Again, Glen, why the hell are you throwing questions I cannot reasonably answer? I do not have the time anymore to do that level of digging on Archive. It feels like you're just trying to find something on me. And like I said: it is indeed slightly unfair that Robert's statements couldn't be scrutinized, but it means little compared to all the time and effort people both sidea already spent on this. Why the hell would TG go so far as to reach out to a hardware expert and the game designer himself for it all to be just be some sort of conspiracy? Unfair, but not collusion.

    And Snowflake, that apology was directed at datagod. Let me quote what Wolff said for you since you're still on that point. "I asked one of the lead referees to investigate and verify these supposed tapes of the records. After several months, the lead ref concluded the tapes never existed and removed Todd's record from the database." It suggests there is a lot that was omitted from the story. I don't see it as an issue.
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