Post Verdict Dispute Discussion: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong - Points [Hammer Allowed] - Player: Billy L Mitchell - Score: 1,062,800

  1. 07-01-2020, 01:36 AM
    If anyone had any doubt as to how Guinness' announcement, coordinated with Mr. Cheater, would factor in to Mr. Cheater's legal strategy, they make it crystal clear, here in their opposition to TG's anti-SLAPP motion filing:

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  2. 07-01-2020, 02:20 AM
    From Pineiro declaration located here:  California Code Sections 518-527 Pineiro.png
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  3. 07-01-2020, 08:19 AM
    From what I've read, signing something like that under duress means it is not legally valid.
    Lauren Tyler
    Eternal Champion of Ragol
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  4. 07-01-2020, 12:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Tyler View Post
    From what I've read, signing something like that under duress means it is not legally valid.

    I believe that to be true, but am unconvinced that a threat of being sued meets the legal standard of duress. Furthermore, I trust it's not libelous for me to write that Billy Mitchell is no Symbionese Liberation Army.
  5. 07-01-2020, 01:24 PM
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  6. 07-01-2020, 05:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by grinder2112 View Post
    I believe that to be true, but am unconvinced that a threat of being sued meets the legal standard of duress. Furthermore, I trust it's not libelous for me to write that Billy Mitchell is no Symbionese Liberation Army.
    Given who we're dealing with, I'm thinking Billy didn't just casually say he would sue. I'm thinking he might have been using coercion of some other kind as well.
    Lauren Tyler
    Eternal Champion of Ragol
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  7. 07-02-2020, 02:40 AM
    Quick thing I noticed a moment ago. In Billy's declaration exhibit filing, starting on page 113 they have seven pages dedicated to silly nonsense about the "peach-like" color of Billy's game tapes shown at Big Bang. At the end, on page 119, they have this dual-image:

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    The filing attributes both of these stills to the following footage, uploaded to YouTube during the 2018 dispute by GDLarcade:

    I saw that and thought "Man, that's a sweet shot of the three girder screen on Billy's TVs there. I'd been looking for a nice shot like that. Thanks for the damning MAME evidence, Billy!" But then I went to look through the video to find it for myself, and I could not. With the five stacked Kongs there, that places it just after an elevator stage, and only one such transition exists on the GDLarcade video, and it's not nearly as crisp. It was then pointed out to me that the game play seen on the GDLarcade video has two lives in reserve throughout, but in that clear shot, you see one life in reserve. That had to have been photographed or filmed off the TV as it continued to play after the presentation (and after Roy Shildt's heckling of Billy).

    For one thing, it's misattributed in Billy's filing, though given that it's actually pretty damning I'm not sure Jace should object to it. But it begs the question: Is there another video of the Big Bang event floating around somewhere? I checked it against the following two, and it's no match to either (and, with the one life in reserve, it would have been after the conclusion of these anyway):

    Could this maybe be from David Race's footage? Since he's no longer on Team Billy like he used to be, I don't suppose he might be willing to make his footage available?
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  8. 07-02-2020, 06:55 AM
    So I was recently given some anonymous assistance on something which I'd seen discussed before, but proof of which I'd never really seen spelled out. I shall spell it out now.

    As most here know (but I will re-establish anyway), on Saturday, August 7, 2010, the same day Billy's two claimed world records on Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Junior were announced and displayed at the "Big Bang" event in Ottumwa, his buddy and tech Rob Childs uploaded three videos to YouTube, which were presented as having been filmed the same day the scores were achieved. Obviously the intention was for these videos to serve as added public authentication of the scores, even if Team Billy would later deny they were anything but "satire".

    The three videos are here:

    "Billy Mitchell speaks (july,2010) moments after breaking donkey kong record" -

    "After DK record Billy Mitchell goes for donkey kong junior record" -

    "We have a new donkey kong junior record July, 2010" -

    In the DK community, it had been known for quite some time (I don't know exactly how long) that the second of those, featuring a swap of two arcade PCBs, was faked. Rob claims to be swapping a DK board for a DK Junior board, but it's a DK Junior board both times. The following video explaining the difference between these boards was posted to the dispute thread:

    The actual video is clearly old, as it is addressed to "Hank" (Chien) and "Steve" (Wiebe). At some point, Robert became aware that others discovered the board swap in his video was fake, and he replaced the audio with royalty-free music, which you hear over the video on his channel now. Thankfully, someone saved the original video before that. You can see the original version here:

    The TG dispute was initially opened on the basis that this piece of evidence for the score was bogus. This didn't meet TG's evidence standards for score removal, and no action was taken at that time.

    Much has been made of the board swap video, but I'd like to point something out in the other two videos.

    While Billy had previously never deigned to address the obvious charade seen in those videos, that changed after the publication of the damning MAME evidence. Billy's scores were now on the chopping block, and explanations were being expected. At Kong Off 6 (during the active TG dispute), Triforce hosted a panel in defense of his friend Billy, and it was at this panel that Kong Off competitor George Riley asked Billy about the matter directly. Starting at 51:10 in the following video, this is what Billy himself had to say:

    "You want the truth, I'll give you the truth. You stop, I've got the whole story. We finished, we ate. An hour later, he goes 'I want to put this on my YouTube channel.' And everybody went back over to the game, and he took out a board, and he put a board in, and he's too lazy to grab the other board, and he did it for his YouTube channel. He's an idiot."

    Gosh, I hope getting thrown under that bus didn't hurt Rob too badly. We're supposed to believe Billy participated in making fake evidence boosting his scores for no reason other than to build up Rob's YouTube channel, which seems to have never been the focus of any other channel-building exercises at any other point in time. So nice of Billy to go out of his way for his good friend Rob like that.

    But seriously, there we have it from Billy himself that the board swap video was filmed later that same day/evening/night/whatever. They finished, they ate. An hour later, Rob's like "Hey, I want to shoot a video!"

    Discussion of the fake board swap seems to have disappeared from their latest filings, but they did address it in their September 2019 legal threat. Here's Rob Childs, on page 44 of Billy's 156-page evidence packet from September (the initial one before Team Billy made changes), explaining the incident:

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    Okay, so he had put the DK board away "earlier in the day". Once again, seems pretty clear he means the video was done later the same day as the scores, right?

    Let's see what others had to say. Todd Rogers' testimony regarding the Boomers score was conspicuously absent from the September evidence submission, but he does make a new statement in Billy's latest declaration exhibits filing, starting on page 40 out of 214. As I said, this board swap seems to have become a non-issue for them, and Todd never addresses it directly. (Even though it seems likely he was the one filming that video featuring Robert and Billy.) Regarding the timing of events that day, he has this to say:

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    Ah, so they ate dinner in between DK and DK Junior? And he suggests Billy should attempt DK Junior "that night". But he does say it was "relatively early" when he said that, so maybe an early dinner?

    Todd continues:

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    Okay, so they left for the "evening". That's pretty vague, though. 6pm? Just past sunset? Also, hilariously no mention of these videos he participated in. Like they just aren't important. You don't think that's going to come up at some point? Are they actually trying to win a case or just throw a bunch of witness statements at the court to bully the other party into conceding?

    Morningdove Mahoney's statement follows on subsequent pages, but her statement is very devoid of detail, simply reiterating Team Billy talking points about a tripod and assuring the reader there was no emulation happening anywhere in sight. She doesn't give any time of day, but she does make a reference to Joe Tortorella giving her tokens to use in her free time, even though my understanding was that she was supposed to be refereeing Billy's games.

    On page 59 of Billy's declaration exhibits, you see the same Matt Furgal signed statement from page 39 of the Sept 2019 evidence packet (the one that oddly switches back and forth between two different fonts). He says the following:

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    Okay, so Donkey Kong was finished late afternoon, then they went and had dinner, and then returned for a three-hour game of Donkey Kong Junior. Seems to go with Todd's statements about a "relatively early" dinner. Still not really the specificity we're looking for here.

    Joe Tortorella didn't really add anything. Basically, "Yeah, I was the manager, they played some Donkey Kong, I'm sure it was all legit."

    Then we get to Billy himself. Specifically, pages 45 and 46 from the 156-page September thing:

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    Here we go! There's the juice. "Todd's words motivated me to at least attempt that night." "Around midnight, I achieved..." "...most people had gone home since it was late at night." All right above Billy's "under penalty of perjury" signature. So maybe some time passed before he started his three-hour Junior run.

    He also makes clear, both chronologically in his statement and in specifying the words "After the performances" (and then again, "long after the end of my performances") that the swap video occurred after the completion of the DK Junior score. (In fact, if you took Billy's KO6 explanation literally, the swap video was an hour AFTER he completed the score "around midnight".)

    Point of all this being: It was super-late when they claim they filmed the board swap. Even during summer in Florida, it should've been dark as f*** outside.

    At this point, you probably see where this is going, and I know exactly what Team Billy will use as their next excuse. But don't worry, they torpedo that as well.

    The board swap video stays pretty closely focused on Rob, on Billy, and on the DK machine. But thankfully, we have two other videos from that session. Note, by the way, how their above statements only reference the one "video" of the board swap. Did they just forget they did two other videos as well? Or are those still supposed to be considered legit score documentation of the record-achieving moment? Since they were addressing the board swap video anyway, why would they not just take the opportunity to say "Yeah, those videos [plural] were all stunts"? Why not disavow them all when you had the chance?

    In the other two videos, you see a bit more of the scene around them. You see various lights here and there, but it's hard to tell what's a window and what's an electric sign. In filming these two videos, Robert still keeps things very close to people's faces, and he definitely favors the side of the building with the DK machine (denying us a good look at what's behind him... for the most part). In the "We have a new..." video, at 1:07, Robert briefly turns the camera on himself:

    He does this to remark to the camera and to Billy, "You pulled me out of bed, man!" (As if he wasn't there with them, filming these three videos in sequence.) When Robert does this turn of the camera, he makes sure to point it up to the ceiling and away from what's directly behind him. It's the same sort of comical concealment you see throughout the videos (such as earlier that same video when Billy quickly backs up to block view of a DK machine which should be showing his high score).

    But Robert wasn't so careful with the "Billy Mitchell speaks..." video. Perhaps he filmed that one first, and then later realized he should be filming up and away, but maybe he (or Billy) just felt lazy and didn't want to redo the first video. (Remember, they supposedly had a real DK board in the car, but just didn't feel like going and getting it for their fake board swap.)

    At any rate, let's take a look at what's behind Mr. Childs in that first video.

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    Boy, that sure looks like an outside door, don't it? What with those glowing red exit signs and all.

    And what's that behind his other shoulder? A rock wall?

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    Yeah, that's definitely a rock wall. Not as clear a shot of those bright exit doors this time, but they are there.

    But still, how can we really be sure those are outside doors, and not.... Well, I'm not sure what else they could even be. But still, is there any closer photo we can get?

    Boomers in Dania Beach, Florida, was closed in 2015 and demolished to build a shopping center, but there still exist photos from when it was open. An anonymous tipster sent me the piece I was missing, a series of photos from before the demolition:

    Scroll down and you'll find this one:

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    Well, look at that! Forget the two random kids who are probably in college by now. You've got those rock walls we saw over Rob's shoulder, and you have two exit doors, which definitely are exterior doors and not like big bright vending machines with exit signs over them. That's it. Not much arguing with that.

    Rewatching the video, it feels pretty obvious, too. Listen to the ambient noise around them. It doesn't "sound" like past Midnight, if that makes sense. It sounds like a summer vacation afternoon. (I'm sure the ever-sycohpantic Triforce would never take that quote of context. "Look right there! Their entire argument is that it sounds like an afternoon! That's all they have!")

    Now, here's where we get to the thing Team Billy will say about this. Because again, in their statements above, they never address the other two videos, just the board swap one, which they had to admit was fake.

    The first most obvious thing they'll try to say is "Oh, those videos were all just jokes, all of them." But even that excuse wouldn't explain why they would lie about these increasingly disavowed videos being filmed at night when they were clearly filmed during the day. As if it's inconsequential that they continued lying, so specifically and so blatantly and in such detail, in their own signed witness statements, well past the point of where they needed to be candid. Nor would it explain the ongoing problem that all these other photos and videos they claim to own which would prove their scores were legitimate were never published in the way these staged videos were. Nor would it address the fact that, ultimately, Twin Galaxies has to rule based on the evidence it has (such as the fact the accused lied and fabricated evidence), and not based on what hypothetical evidence an accused cheater argues could theoretically exist.

    And that's where we get to Team Billy's next possible out. "Well, we didn't lie. The board swap video was filmed after Midnight, like we said. We just didn't tell you that these videos were filmed at different times. Sure, that one where you see the exits was filmed in daylight. That doesn't mean we didn't film the board swap one later on, after dark."

    Notice of course Todd, Billy, and Rob are all wearing the same thing in each video. They're (conveniently for us) on record saying the board swap video was later at night following the DK Junior record. I should hope they wouldn't expect us to believe they all reconvened, each on different days, all wearing the same outfits as before, all to stage different videos and pretend they were all done the same day as the DK and DK Junior records (though with what they've asked us to believe so far, I guess I couldn't even put that past them).

    But no, the easy answer at this point is "Well, we filmed the one video with daylight in the late afternoon, between games, then Rob decided he wanted me to participate in falsifying more evidence of my scores because it might help his YouTube channel, so we did two more videos later at night" (the board swap one, and "We have a new..." where Billy states his exact DK Junior record).


    But then how do you explain this? The following is a quote from "Billy Mitchell speaks...", starting at 20 seconds. And remember, this is the one of the three videos where we can see in the video itself that it was filmed during daylight hours. Here's what Billy himself had to say:

    The fact of the matter was, on the eve of the opening of the video game hall of fame, and wanting to set a record, Boomers has such a tremendous history in the gaming world, I thought it was right to come here, to do it here, because so many players, so many champions, so many world records were created because of what was created here at Boomer's so many years ago. There was a little problem in the fact that they hadn't had a Donkey Kong in here in probably about ten years. So we made a contact here with the manager, as we call him Joe T, he was more than cordial, he basically gave us the place, whatever we wanted, here, there, playing all hours, day and night, any place, any position we wanted, and it worked out great. We set up our recording, set up our games, had everything ready. And, uh, it was a little slow getting started, but then once the records came, they came. And I guess that'll come out in a press release."

    Records. Plural.

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  9. 07-02-2020, 08:43 AM
    As a further reference to ersatz_cats' post, here are the two moments with Robert - the first after the DK score, and the second after the DK Jr score. Recall that behind Robert are the entrance doors to the space (visible on the lower left in the after DK image). The arrow identifies a common and only visible point of reference between the photos.

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  10. 07-02-2020, 02:52 PM
    If Mitchell is saying that Dwayne altered the tapes to make it look like something else (MAME signatures?)
    Then WHY was Mitchell helping Carlos and Steve to try and re-create those non arcade signatures on his original equipment?

    Shouldn't he have instead been working on a method to show how Dwayne actually managed to introduce those transitions and stuff from his supposed unaltered tapes?


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