Post Verdict Dispute Discussion: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong - Points [Hammer Allowed] - Player: Billy L Mitchell - Score: 1,062,800

  1. 10-29-2019, 08:18 PM
    Here are the DK-specific rules...I definitely did not write these...

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/content...ecording-Rules
  2. 10-29-2019, 08:32 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    We see a real bias in how steve was treated, apparently though the bias wasnt even about helping billy or hurting steve so much as it was about hating anything roy related even in the slightest.

    not wanna risk a gummy substance? i get it. by why ignore firebrandx very very relevant question on the point about how come all the other cases of modified boards that get a pass?


    RTM REPLY - this one I will reply to. If all you see here is a bias then that outlook itself IS a bias.

    No other gamer in TG history was offered the possibility of a TG staffer flying out to verify performances...with a free board-set in tow, no less...at no expense to the gamer. And just how does writing a 30+ page article celebrating a performance, before that Shildt revelation, show a "bias" ? No other gamer in TG history had such an article crafted to showcase what they had done.

    Cherry-picking inconsistencies in validations is all-too-easy, especially from the first phase of TG (pre-1997) which was literally "The Wild West". I won't even get into the days of TG accepting photographs, or how performances such as Chris Ayra's "Head On" score of 300K made it into the TG database when it was witness by Billy, a non-TG referee, or a number of other issues from TG's past.

    Steve's original 947K score on a DDK boardset was approved without even knowing that a DDK boardset existed. Several Funspot boards were "fixed" by Mark Spaeth years back by inserting a different clock crystal than ACAM had hoped that he would have used, and who knows how many games that encompassed never mind TG-submitted scores.

    The issue can be debated ad-nauseum...nothing will ever be solved considering these events, decisions, omissions, etc, all occurred anywhere from 10-38 years ago. If no one will ever move forward from these then TG should just dump lock-stock-and-barrel every single score "verified" from 2013 and prior. That would be a colossally dumb*ss thing to do, but some gamers will never feel comfortable otherwise.

    But seeing "bias"...if that is ALL that you see then that is quite the myopic PoV.
  3. 10-29-2019, 08:46 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    RTM REPLY - this one I will reply to. If all you see here is a bias then that outlook itself IS a bias.

    No other gamer in TG history was offered the possibility of a TG staffer flying out to verify performances...with a free board-set in tow, no less...at no expense to the gamer. And just how does writing a 30+ page article celebrating a performance, before that Shildt revelation, show a "bias" ? No other gamer in TG history had such an article crafted to showcase what they had done.

    Cherry-picking inconsistencies in validations is all-too-easy, especially from the first phase of TG (pre-1997) which was literally "The Wild West". I won't even get into the days of TG accepting photographs, or how performances such as Chris Ayra's "Head On" score of 300K made it into the TG database when it was witness by Billy, a non-TG referee, or a number of other issues from TG's past.

    Steve's original 947K score on a DDK boardset was approved without even knowing that a DDK boardset existed. Several Funspot boards were "fixed" by Mark Spaeth years back by inserting a different clock crystal than ACAM had hoped that he would have used, and who knows how many games that encompassed never mind TG-submitted scores.

    The issue can be debated ad-nauseum...nothing will ever be solved considering these events, decisions, omissions, etc, all occurred anywhere from 10-38 years ago. If no one will ever move forward from these then TG should just dump lock-stock-and-barrel every single score "verified" from 2013 and prior. That would be a colossally dumb*ss thing to do, but some gamers will never feel comfortable otherwise.

    But seeing "bias"...if that is ALL that you see then that is quite the myopic PoV.
    oh boy quick to reply slow to read, i didnt say you were biased against steve, in fact, i explicitly pointed out i didnt see you werent biased against steve or even biased in favor of billy (at least not in that thread, though your comment elsewhere post a different story if you really wanna argue this). so to misread such a short clear statement so poorly shows your bias against me as well. i said you were biased against roy, which you were/are. Thank goodness his missile command score is back, i bet every corrupt bone in your body cries out when you see him get whats his. If only the dodge 'em scores you removed just cause you're not good enough to tie them would come back.

    however, now that we're talking roy and steve, do you remember this
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/content.php/461
    im trying to verify, but sadly the article it links i cant find. basically it says roy admitted to helping steve cheat. pretty bold claim. i'm trying to figure out if thats true (true that roy made that accusation, not true that steve cheated. obviously for judging steve its hearsay, but for judging roy is a big deal), if so roy deserves what he gets. He was right about alot and mistreated about a lot, but this would really overshadow all that. however if roy never said that then the tg writer holds some responsiblity, the fact that its citing is a source is no excuse if the source was known to be unreliable, and this tg post would show further tg bias against both
    Roy was Right
  4. 10-29-2019, 10:08 PM
    unrelated to my spat here with rtm and back to all the billy stuff, i was looking at the forums about kok. i saw one thread was to handle why billy's tape was at funspot. all the other answers, had a spin we can argue, but if you want to give walter/billy any benefit of the doubt the answers could hold up, although they are kinda convenient. i saw his video tape at funspot had an answer though and thought "this will be good, i HAVE to see how they spin this"

    well looks like all the time in the world couldnt explain that one

    also, datagod as much as i enjoy looking at peoples browsers tabs, the pleasant tg ads i get are absolutley not from my search history. however my search history going forward may be based on my tg ads wink wink
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    Roy was Right
  5. 10-29-2019, 10:31 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    [snip]
    im trying to verify, but sadly the article it links i cant find. basically it says roy admitted to helping steve cheat. pretty bold claim. i'm trying to figure out if thats true (true that roy made that accusation, not true that steve cheated. obviously for judging steve its hearsay, but for judging roy is a big deal), if so roy deserves what he gets. He was right about alot and mistreated about a lot, but this would really overshadow all that. however if roy never said that then the tg writer holds some responsiblity, the fact that its citing is a source is no excuse if the source was known to be unreliable, and this tg post would show further tg bias against both
    I found the follow-up discussion about the article here:

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/archive.../t-117689.html

    It appears that Walter was initially steering people towards the blog post (possibly he was the author?) citing the article, but TG members rebelled. Walter ultimately changed tact, writing, "This link has been removed until Brice Richards comes to the forefront and explains his interview. We have tried to contact the writer through many different avenues, but to no avail. It is understood that the interview may well be fabricated and can't be relied upon."
    Thanks Snowflake thanked this post
  6. 10-29-2019, 11:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener View Post
    I found the follow-up discussion about the article here:

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/archive.../t-117689.html

    It appears that Walter was initially steering people towards the blog post (possibly he was the author?) citing the article, but TG members rebelled. Walter ultimately changed tact, writing, "This link has been removed until Brice Richards comes to the forefront and explains his interview. We have tried to contact the writer through many different avenues, but to no avail. It is understood that the interview may well be fabricated and can't be relied upon."
    thx. for those interest this doesnt kick in until the 51st comment. atrocious, worse than i thought

    so, as the evener correclty points out, this was nothing but a subject change. most things were dealt with "new info coming" and the new info didnt really adress any point so much as it was to demonize roy. further, there was the rebellion the evener mentions, and get this. if you get the link of the article, apparently, in full context it was clear to all readers the author was full of it. even rtm, a first, is in the awkward position of defending roy against the writers chargers roy is a racist. So how does walter respond? he leaves his excerpt that i posted with quotes, but removes the lnk to the article itself!!!! With the link of the article itself removed its no longer so obvous what a nut job wrote it, yet walter still gets to make roy look bad. shameful. Leaving up quotes he knew to be suspect, and removing peoples chance to see the source.

    damn, the TG plot and hatred against roy really knew no bounds. If walter was willing to go to these lengths, then roy's claim he was framed for the other stuff they accuse him of makes me all the more inclined to believe it.
    Roy was Right
  7. 10-30-2019, 12:14 AM
    Getting harder to respond to this thread for some reason...takes a LONG time for the ability to come up, not sure why.

    On to Roy...

    I recall something about Roy being called a racist and I do remember that a lot of TG'ers, self included, quickly pounced on that one. Roy may have been (and still is) a lot of things, but a racist was never one of them.

    As for TG's "hatred" towards Roy, I would not use that word. Extreme, unparalleled annoyance would be more like it. There's a veritable laundry list of offenses spanning the past 34 years that I am sick and tired of having to recap for those who were not here from the beginning of his nonsense from TG being online never mind his stunts from pre-1997.

    Roy has threatened TG staffers, pestered them at both home and the workplace, at places where they vacation, posted multiple libelous videos and slanderous statements about a number of people...I won't even go into his most egregious stunts including how he contacted the president of New Line, or Chris Ayra at the supermarket chain where he worked, or Ric Fothergill while he was convalescing in Canada. Then the "legal" missives" which if they were not so laughable would have cost certain TG staffers thousands of dollars in legal fees if they were actually professionally launched. And then there were the death threats.

    Nope...not "hatred"...it is annoyance on a whole different scale compared to nearly any other gamer over the decades, including Rudy.

    His lies were boundless, including quite a few recent ones over the past few years where he claimed that I was the secret owner of TG.

    So don't start bashing TG officials for their handling of Roy...he's lucky he wasn't hauled off to prison for the stunts that he pulled.

    I read a good portion of that link posted above to an old TG thread. It's important to note the timing of when that thread was created...well before the point that it was clear that KoK wasn't merely a film product negative towards Billy but that it was a concerted effort by Seth, Ed, Steve, Billy, Steve S AND Walter all along thus some of the ideology found early in that thread did change over time.

    For those who do not know, Roy had stated on multiple occasions for several years that he wanted to "blow one past TG", and the DDK boardset was the first indication that he may have succeeded once it was brought to TG's attention. Thus his involvement with the 1.049M submission once discovered by Kuh/Rodgers was treated with extreme caution from that point on. All of this was already explained in multiple threads over the years.

    I make absolutely no apologies now nor ever for how TG both before my tenure, during and after treated Roy, nor how I personally handled Roy on the forum and in personal dealings with him. After spending...nay, wasting...a good 300+ hours on Roy and Roy-issues from 2001 and onward, included but not limited to his attempts to contact me at work several years back and nearly getting me fired in the process (Jace had to help me put a stop to that BS as it was out of control), Roy belongs behind bars, not "apologized to" for how he was "treated".
  8. 10-30-2019, 12:29 AM
    For those interested, Darren Harris is still active on KLOV forums. Unless he's been banned again for the millionth time.

    For those interested in the MS Pac RNG that claims that the fruits might be controllable, forget it. They aren't.


    john
    .
    Likes Snowflake liked this post
  9. 10-30-2019, 12:42 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    oh boy quick to reply slow to read, i didnt say you were biased against steve, in fact, i explicitly pointed out i didnt see you werent biased against steve or even biased in favor of billy (at least not in that thread, though your comment elsewhere post a different story if you really wanna argue this). so to misread such a short clear statement so poorly shows your bias against me as well. i said you were biased against roy, which you were/are. Thank goodness his missile command score is back, i bet every corrupt bone in your body cries out when you see him get whats his. If only the dodge 'em scores you removed just cause you're not good enough to tie them would come back.

    however, now that we're talking roy and steve, do you remember this
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/content.php/461
    im trying to verify, but sadly the article it links i cant find. basically it says roy admitted to helping steve cheat. pretty bold claim. i'm trying to figure out if thats true (true that roy made that accusation, not true that steve cheated. obviously for judging steve its hearsay, but for judging roy is a big deal), if so roy deserves what he gets. He was right about alot and mistreated about a lot, but this would really overshadow all that. however if roy never said that then the tg writer holds some responsiblity, the fact that its citing is a source is no excuse if the source was known to be unreliable, and this tg post would show further tg bias against both


    RTM REPLY - "biased" against you ? Any sane person would be. Let's see...you created a score challenge against one of my 2600 scores purely for purposes of vendetta and you have blasted me incessantly on the TG forum dating back to when you did not like my contributing to certain posts, ans on and on...so if you want to call it bias, go right ahead...not stopping you there.

    Your'e going back to a decision on Atari 2600 "Dodge'Em" to remove the score category for the game 1B pattern...really ? A "challenge" that could be completed while playing while blindfolded and THAT'S important to you to cite ? Get over it...that's as bad as having a "world record" on "Word Zapper" for the 2600 which was another category rightfully removed.

    As for cited sources and links that no longer work...a lot of the older TG links may simply not have ported over properly into the new database. Not every forum thread was preserved and there were well over a thousand and up over the years. Can't help you if a cited link is busted...blame the transition team if you want but they did a decent job at preserving a good number of old threads.

    Not sure why you hold Shildt in such high regards...he deserves to be incarcerated for his actions over the years, many of which crossed state lines. If you wish to idolize someone who launched death threats against a TG staffer (at the time it was Billy) then by all means...goes more towards your credibility and character than to Roy's.
  10. 10-30-2019, 01:10 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    Getting harder to respond to this thread for some reason...takes a LONG time for the ability to come up, not sure why.

    On to Roy...

    I recall something about Roy being called a racist and I do remember that a lot of TG'ers, self included, quickly pounced on that one. Roy may have been (and still is) a lot of things, but a racist was never one of them.

    As for TG's "hatred" towards Roy, I would not use that word. Extreme, unparalleled annoyance would be more like it. There's a veritable laundry list of offenses spanning the past 34 years that I am sick and tired of having to recap for those who were not here from the beginning of his nonsense from TG being online never mind his stunts from pre-1997.

    Roy has threatened TG staffers, pestered them at both home and the workplace, at places where they vacation, posted multiple libelous videos and slanderous statements about a number of people...I won't even go into his most egregious stunts including how he contacted the president of New Line, or Chris Ayra at the supermarket chain where he worked, or Ric Fothergill while he was convalescing in Canada. Then the "legal" missives" which if they were not so laughable would have cost certain TG staffers thousands of dollars in legal fees if they were actually professionally launched. And then there were the death threats.

    Nope...not "hatred"...it is annoyance on a whole different scale compared to nearly any other gamer over the decades, including Rudy.

    His lies were boundless, including quite a few recent ones over the past few years where he claimed that I was the secret owner of TG.

    So don't start bashing TG officials for their handling of Roy...he's lucky he wasn't hauled off to prison for the stunts that he pulled.

    I read a good portion of that link posted above to an old TG thread. It's important to note the timing of when that thread was created...well before the point that it was clear that KoK wasn't merely a film product negative towards Billy but that it was a concerted effort by Seth, Ed, Steve, Billy, Steve S AND Walter all along thus some of the ideology found early in that thread did change over time.

    For those who do not know, Roy had stated on multiple occasions for several years that he wanted to "blow one past TG", and the DDK boardset was the first indication that he may have succeeded once it was brought to TG's attention. Thus his involvement with the 1.049M submission once discovered by Kuh/Rodgers was treated with extreme caution from that point on. All of this was already explained in multiple threads over the years.

    I make absolutely no apologies now nor ever for how TG both before my tenure, during and after treated Roy, nor how I personally handled Roy on the forum and in personal dealings with him. After spending...nay, wasting...a good 300+ hours on Roy and Roy-issues from 2001 and onward, included but not limited to his attempts to contact me at work several years back and nearly getting me fired in the process (Jace had to help me put a stop to that BS as it was out of control), Roy belongs behind bars, not "apologized to" for how he was "treated".
    the thread taking a long time is a site wide issue. you'll find the same issue if you try to adjudicate or submit scores.
    most of your stuff, i'll take your word for and file under "two wrongs dont make a right"

    "So don't start bashing TG officials for their handling of Roy...he's lucky he wasn't hauled off to prison for the stunts that he pulled."
    sorry bro, but i stand by my bash -- and youll notice i did actually acknowledge you were willing to stick up for roy on that one -- so the bash actually doesnt apply to you for once. well until you change your tone here and now defend tg even in that case.

    ill let the justice system decide if he belongs in jail, thats a strong claim though and really shows how you feel about him. I didnt think TG was supposed to judge scores based on the person though and rather the score. There are very much scores ofpeople who have beein in prison, and belonged in prison, but their scores stayed because belong in prison doesnt make it for two to also commit a wrong.

    so this one is at walter, not you -- you should like that you love bashing walter. though your defense here and other places fine, i'll lump you in if you want.

    For walter to share an article that was clearly false, and to keep out of context quotes up even after realizing that, and to do so for no other reason than to distract from the questions about billy (and quetions about you) and turning it all on roy means walter/tg owes not just roy, but everyone he was trying to hoodwink an apology
    Roy was Right
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