Post Verdict Dispute Discussion: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong - Points [Hammer Allowed] - Player: Billy L Mitchell - Score: 1,062,800

  1. 10-19-2019, 12:51 PM
    If you can't get to the YouTube clip from the link above, search for "Huge Billy Mitchell News! New Donkey Kong & Pac-Man Attempts!" by YouTube poster "Free Play Arcade".
  2. 10-19-2019, 10:18 PM
    It's been an interesting journey following Mitchell's next steps after his banishment from TG, DKF, and Guinness and the removal of his world records. I think it's fair to say that his Evidence Package, while trumpeted as the basis of his exoneration, has actually created even greater confidence in the original findings. I now feel that there's a super-majority consensus in the classic arcade community that Mitchell's actions fall far short of the standards of honesty, integrity, and personal responsibility that lie at the heart of high score competition.

    That said, Mitchell's preferred category of competition has always been "the most famous." And while he absolutely needed world record fame in order to have a reason for why anyone should care about his video game playing, when it comes to conventions and comicons where he's now taken his show, he may have found a workable formula where the general public is broadly unfamiliar (and perhaps unconcerned) with the details of the evidence.

    On the topic of simply reaching kill screens today, Mitchell had higher aspirations at one time. In June 2000, Mitchell predicted that on a Perfect Pac-Man he would achieve a time under 3 hours 40 minutes - "and when I do that, that's it, I'm not playing again, mark my words...it'll be about 18 minutes faster than anyone else could ever do. It'll be a speed record that'll live forever." David Race holds the record today at 3 hours, 28 minutes, 49 seconds.
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  3. 10-21-2019, 04:45 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by grinder2112 View Post
    There's definitely something I do not understand about how video refresh rate is wired to the game's performance. I've sought out some Donkey Kong PCB repair videos, but do not have a good understanding of how that purpose-built computer varies from more general purpose Z80-based computers.

    Presumably the Z80A in Donkey Kong has a crystal in the MHz range, so the video refresh could just be counted off from that faster clock. I've seen references to that CPU clock crystal being 6 MHz. Some Z80As are rated at 4 MHz.

    Here's the MAME 0.116 xml for DKONG.

    Code:
    <?xml version="1.0"?><mame build="0.116 (Jun 10 2007)" debug="no">
        <game name="dkong" sourcefile="dkong.c">
            <description>Donkey Kong (US set 1)</description>
            <year>1981</year>
            <manufacturer>Nintendo of America</manufacturer>
            <rom name="c_5et_g.bin" size="4096" crc="ba70b88b" sha1="d76ebecfea1af098d843ee7e578e480cd658ac1a" region="cpu1" offset="0"/>
            <rom name="c_5ct_g.bin" size="4096" crc="5ec461ec" sha1="acb11a8fbdbb3ab46068385fe465f681e3c824bd" region="cpu1" offset="1000"/>
            <rom name="c_5bt_g.bin" size="4096" crc="1c97d324" sha1="c7966261f3a1d3296927e0b6ee1c58039fc53c1f" region="cpu1" offset="2000"/>
            <rom name="c_5at_g.bin" size="4096" crc="b9005ac0" sha1="3fe3599f6fa7c496f782053ddf7bacb453d197c4" region="cpu1" offset="3000"/>
            <rom name="s_3i_b.bin" size="2048" crc="45a4ed06" sha1="144d24464c1f9f01894eb12f846952290e6e32ef" region="cpu2" offset="0"/>
            <rom name="s_3j_b.bin" size="2048" crc="4743fe92" sha1="6c82b57637c0212a580591397e6a5a1718f19fd2" region="cpu2" offset="800"/>
            <rom name="v_5h_b.bin" size="2048" crc="12c8c95d" sha1="a57ff5a231c45252a63b354137c920a1379b70a3" region="gfx1" dispose="yes" offset="0"/>
            <rom name="v_3pt.bin" size="2048" crc="15e9c5e9" sha1="976eb1e18c74018193a35aa86cff482ebfc5cc4e" region="gfx1" dispose="yes" offset="800"/>
            <rom name="l_4m_b.bin" size="2048" crc="59f8054d" sha1="793dba9bf5a5fe76328acdfb90815c243d2a65f1" region="gfx2" dispose="yes" offset="0"/>
            <rom name="l_4n_b.bin" size="2048" crc="672e4714" sha1="92e5d379f4838ac1fa44d448ce7d142dae42102f" region="gfx2" dispose="yes" offset="800"/>
            <rom name="l_4r_b.bin" size="2048" crc="feaa59ee" sha1="ecf95db5a20098804fc8bd59232c66e2e0ed3db4" region="gfx2" dispose="yes" offset="1000"/>
            <rom name="l_4s_b.bin" size="2048" crc="20f2ef7e" sha1="3bc482a38bf579033f50082748ee95205b0f673d" region="gfx2" dispose="yes" offset="1800"/>
            <rom name="c-2k.bpr" size="256" crc="e273ede5" sha1="b50ec9e1837c00c20fb2a4369ec7dd0358321127" region="proms" offset="0"/>
            <rom name="c-2j.bpr" size="256" crc="d6412358" sha1="f9c872da2fe8e800574ae3bf483fb3ccacc92eb3" region="proms" offset="100"/>
            <rom name="v-5e.bpr" size="256" crc="b869b8f5" sha1="c2bdccbf2654b64ea55cd589fd21323a9178a660" region="proms" offset="200"/>
            <chip type="cpu" name="Z80" clock="3072000"/>
            <chip type="cpu" name="I8035" clock="400000"/>
            <chip type="audio" name="Discrete"/>
            <display type="raster" rotate="90" width="256" height="224" refresh="60.606061" />
            <sound channels="1"/>
            <input players="2" buttons="1" coins="1" service="yes">
                <control type="joy4way"/>
            </input>
            <dipswitch name="Lives">
                <dipvalue name="3" default="yes"/>
                <dipvalue name="4"/>
                <dipvalue name="5"/>
                <dipvalue name="6"/>
            </dipswitch>
            <dipswitch name="Bonus Life">
                <dipvalue name="7000" default="yes"/>
                <dipvalue name="10000"/>
                <dipvalue name="15000"/>
                <dipvalue name="20000"/>
            </dipswitch>
            <dipswitch name="Coinage">
                <dipvalue name="5 Coins/1 Credit"/>
                <dipvalue name="4 Coins/1 Credit"/>
                <dipvalue name="3 Coins/1 Credit"/>
                <dipvalue name="2 Coins/1 Credit"/>
                <dipvalue name="1 Coin/1 Credit" default="yes"/>
                <dipvalue name="1 Coin/2 Credits"/>
                <dipvalue name="1 Coin/3 Credits"/>
                <dipvalue name="1 Coin/4 Credits"/>
            </dipswitch>
            <dipswitch name="Cabinet">
                <dipvalue name="Upright" default="yes"/>
                <dipvalue name="Cocktail"/>
            </dipswitch>
            <driver status="good" emulation="good" color="good" sound="good" graphic="good" savestate="supported" palettesize="256"/>
        </game>
    </mame>

    That 60.606061 Hz shows up in the splash as well.

    Edited to add:
    Then again, the video signal could be produced by a mostly independent circuit, on its own clock. It would need to look at shared video memory, but that should not present a problem for the CPU if its not going to touch. If some EE has already torn one down on video, please let me know where I can see it.

    Refresh rates versions of MAME were available, see here "NoNameMAME", "AdvancedMame", "SmoothMame", "TVMame" ect..

    Especially for running games to sync with specific refresh rates.

    No Name MAME:
    https://sourceforge.net/projects/non...20Name%20MAME/
    Earliest version I could get was 2003

    SmoothMame:
    Smoothmame is a win32 mame derivative, and was created for users who desire silky smooth displays in games that
    use a non-standard refresh rate of 50 Hz or higher. Very simply, when using this build, all games in mame will run at exactly 60 Hz - which results in less flicker for many of them
    http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=25981.0
    "In normal mame, use triplebuffer and you get the smoothness without the speed change.
    It really does work well without it. If your system can't handle triple buffer, thats where smoothmame really helped. It changes the speed of the game to your monitors refresh... but on many games that changes the speed by 5-10% (56.333fps -> 60fps makes the game run a bit faster. And 52fps is a HUGE difference)."

    From: https://sourceforge.net/p/advancemam...sage/11047245/
    I'm not a "SmoothMame" user.
    That being said, and for what i can tell,
    'smoothmame' is build from Mame core, and like Mame itself, does _NOT_ include any special graphic drivers for running at arcade resolution.
    Only the OS system resolutions are available.

    Thus, for running 'smoothmame' at a given arcade resolution,
    you will have to provide a third party PC to arcade graphic mode utility, and load it _before_ launching 'smoothmame'.
    The only thing 'smoothmame' is able to do is, smooth scrolling in games whose original refresh rate was different from 60Hz, by tweaking the game driver to run at 60 fps. Nothing more, nothing less.

    If you're a newbie, then i'll advise you to use AdvanceMame in conjunction with AdvanceMenu.
    Advanceed - Mame since 2001

    TVMAME (2002):
    https://web.archive.org/web/20031011...tion/main.html
    TVMAME32 is a MAME32 (not to be confused with the Win32 version of MAME) Binary that was compiled on the understanding that televisions or Arcade Monitors using Scan Converters run at fixed frequencies. If you've been MAMEing for a while, you've probably noticed that some games don't run at 60Hz natively, such as the Cave games, CPS2, early Namco, Irem, etc... These game drivers have either been sped up (if faster than 50Hz) or slowed down (if above 60Hz) so that their refresh rates now match 60Hz.

    This is not a new concept as for a long time MAME's source code has been released for people to play with, and many already did modify the divers for their own personal use to run at whatever speed was most appropriate (60Hz in most cases). This build however is a MAME32 based version with those tweaks and should improve your gaming experience if you do use MAME with a TV or Arcade Monitor with a Scan Converter.

    As the games refresh rates have been modified, there will be slight slowdown or speed up in modified games, but it should not be anything which drastically changes gameplay.



    Later other utilities emerge thereafter like:
    RATREFRESH arcade controls forum:
    http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/inde...,152919.0.html

    So the knowledge to change refreshrate for smoothness did exist very early between MAME savvy users or developers
    streaming mspacman normal and turbo speed at: https://www.twitch.tv/francoisadt

    Francois du Toit
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  4. 10-29-2019, 08:59 AM
    One of my biggest bones of contention with the "Evidence Package" was a few statements made by Billy that I bore "hatred" towards Steve Wiebe...statements that I said before I considered libelous as they were without basis and were harmful to me on social media.

    I stated for the past 14+ years that I made Steve Wiebe a personal and fair offer to fly out to him at my own expense with a TG-approved "Donkey Kong" boardset in-tow...which he could keep...for the purpose of watching him play as many times as he wanted to in my presence.

    Below is definitive proof of not only my asking this of Steve but his response acknowledging as much. From the link below, read posts 49, 50, 51 and 61 especially.

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...WR-DVD-on-EBAY!
  5. 10-29-2019, 09:10 AM
    Here are the "Highlights", and my thanks to gamer Darren Harris for spotting this thread and supplying me with the relevant info...again, everything stated below is taken from posts 49, 50, 51 and 61 of that thread, posts by both myself in the capacity of then-TG chief referee, and by Steve Wiebe posting on his own behalf.

    ********************

    The following are key posts from a 15 year old thread….
    Response from Steve Wiebe regarding 1,006,600 point DK DVD
    11-09-2004, 07:51 PM
    I come in peace :D, merely stating the facts of what has become a convoluted mess to say the least.

    First, I was given as a gift by a TG staff member a DVD of my million plus game. When I first submitted a score of 985,000 about a year ago, I was asked if I would like a DVD of my game or if I already had made one myself. I said, "Thanks. I'll take a DVD from you." I have this 985,000 game on DVD as well and this one also says, "Twin Galaxies Proudly Presents.."
    So, I did not force anyone at TG to put on the title screen, "Twin Galaxies Proudly Presents..." It was done by Twin Galaxies by their own freewell, so I am completely absolved of any fault. The disclaimer was put on the DVD in my honesty.
    However, regarding the 1,006,600 score, Twin Galaxies not only printed a DVD of the game with the "Twin Galaxies Proudly Presents..", they also publicly presented a poster at Classic Game Expo, celebrating this achievement, and wrote up a lengthy article about the accomplishment that was to be released to the public. Why would TG publicly announce the score and have a poster if they hadn't found the score legitimate? I have the banquet on video as well and a copy of the preliminary article should anyone question it. Therefore, Twin Galaxies' behavior indicates that they originally acknowledged the score as valid.
    To be honest, I have sent in tape after tape for the last year and have not had a score verified. Therefore, I do not see any way TG will ever verify my million. The board was tested by an expert with DK boards, and it checked out to be a perfect, original code, Donkey Kong board. The game play as recorded on tape is that of a legitimate game. I even flew down to San Jose to show that I can play and reached the kill screen in front of TG personnel.
    I wish to have friendly relations with Twin Galaxies and have no ill will against anyone at TG. I just have to speak the truth in order to defend myself when attacked. I just thought that I could kindly offer a copy of the game at a reasonable price to those interested in Donkey Kong. In consideration of TG, I pledge to no longer sell the version supplied to me AS A GIFT by TG.
    Please E-mail me with any questions regarding this situation since there is more truth to be told.
    Thanks for your ear and I apologize for the lengthy posting.

    Steve Wiebe

    A Few Replies
    11-09-2004, 08:56 PM
    Steve:

    I will reply to you and use the term "3rd party individual" occassionally to refer to a certain someone that has involved himself to a certain extent in the verification process, rather than mention this person by name.

    ************************************************** ****

    ISSUE ONE - your game was not yet TG-verified, as you know. The matter of a TG official giving you a good faith gift, as it was, with TG Presents was intended for your personal enjoyment and as a reward for your incredible still-to-be-verified accomplishment. This was not made with the intent of potential resale purposes.

    ISSUE TWO - originally, you submitted a 947.2K score on DK last year, which I personally verified. At the time, this score was received much later than your 1M "DKJr" score, also verified by me. At the time, no one at TG had any prior knowledge of a "Double Donkey Kong" conversion kit.

    Through sheer happenstance, a long-time TG gamer had discovered that your DK score was achieved on such a kit...after the story was released. How very nice...a huge egg on TG's face in the process.

    TG pursued this with one of the developers of the kit which is based on the DKJr boardset. Technically, all it really allows is the ability to play both titles using the DKJr sound set, and also allows for stage skipping. However, standard TG policy which may not have been known to you at the time was that we do not co-mingle platforms...period.

    The score was to be reclassified, at the time. And as DKJr was also believed to be conversion, the same position was taken on that title. Again, this was the initial decision, and no action was taken since as the matter is still under discussion.

    ISSUE THREE - On or about January of this year, I received a call from you regarding the DK score and potential reclass. We discussed the TG position on the double DK kit. You had then expressed interest in seeking out a classic DK set to make it right, and that's where we left off.

    Approx early April you E-MAILed me to inform of a 985K score, crushing your previous record. That was awesome. I informed Bill and Walter, and you did send it a tape. A story was crafted, and not yet sent as we wanted to do a double check, just to be sure, as another egg on our face we did not need.

    Not too long after that, specifically 6/30, you announced an incredible 999.5K score, just missing 1M. Four days later, the 1.006M was announced. The tape was quickly sent in...I had not even finished watching the 999.5K tape article so started the new one.

    The 1.006M article was sent to you for approval...all 40 pages of it inclusive of an additional bit of information as you well know by now, and which I will not mention here just yet.

    The tape was sent to our expert for approval, and it was thisclose to final verification, but something was not quite right. Again, to avoid another egg on our face, we waited just a bit more for additional information to come. And it did.

    ISSUE FOUR - Based on new information, largely due to the involvement of a 3rd party individual in securing you a boardset, and for technical reasons discovered due to the involvement of another 3rd party individual, we decided to be prudent and to explore these new lines of investigation before us.

    We were actually less than 48 hours from going public with the story, which was not done thus the score is not TG verified.

    Part of the final verification included the unusual request to have the boardset analyzed by our recognized expert in the hobby. The problem is, we no longer could.

    You had called me a few Saturdays ago to discuss your 1.006M game. At the time, you had already been sent a few weeks back the draft of the article to hit worldwide. I discussed the involvement of the 3rd party individual and how it ultimately tampered with the verification process. The "test environment", if you will, was now clouded due to the sequence of events and most importantly the current location of the board.

    To spell it out bluntly in medical terms, it's as if you had provided a blood supply for testing, then an anomoly is found, and as the hospital tries to go back to the sample for further tests, it finds that the sample is no longer present. A new sample may not be possible as the labratory experiment has been compromised, and new testing must begin.

    Not coincidentally, a day before you called, I received another call from that 3rd party individual. Then, when you called, some of what I told that person came out in our conversation. Obviously the two of you "chatted" in the interrim. That aside, I arrived at a solution which it seemed to me that you appreciated. I suggested that I personally, at my own expense, fly to your area and spend the day there watching you play on a boardset that we are 100% certain is TG verified. This way, the results would be golden.

    One day later and guess what is on Ebay but your DVD.

    ISSUE FIVE - It is obvious that a "backdoor" approach to gain notoriety, maybe even without verification, is achieved by such a public sale of this item/product. This is not the path I would have taken, to be frank.

    Over thirty five hours of my personal time were spent watching the action as I crafted my article and had to rewatch scene after scene to get every possible and trackable detail, so no small effort was made on your behalf to create a major news story announcing the feat.

    I will not go into full details of exactly what was to be announced in totality, but suffice it to say that a very, very large audience would have been informed had the full story been released on schedule.

    Walter Day, I believe, even spoke with you personally on the matter. Some inconsistencies arose over time and discussions especially relating to the involvement of the 3rd party individual and related transactions.

    Prudence dictated that we wait until final verification could be made without uncertainity. That may no longer be possible with the path that the board used has taken since then. And again I stress, these unusual steps are being taken due to, largely, (A) the enormity of the historical importance of such a performance if legitimate, (B) prior lack of disclosure on the "Double D" kit used, and your re-acquitision of it during the time period of 2004.

    Some good has come out of this, inclusive of TG consultants contemplating a revamp of our arcade submission protocols, to protect the integrity of the TG scoreboard and gaming community, and quite honestly, to prevent another such occurrance. involving a questionable boardset.

    Steve, after all is said and done, my personal offer still stands... I will, at my own personal expense, fly out to Washington to watch you play on a TG approved boardset. But until we can work out together, if possible, how to achieve final verification on the 1.006M score...and court of public opinion cannot be used as part of the verification process, unfortunately...we have few options left open to us, I am truly sorry to say.

    As always, please feel free to call me to discuss. My number at work is (212) 366-3036 and the best time to reach me is after 6:00pm eastern standard time. Hy home number is private and is not disclosed in a public forum, but I offer you the chance to call me at home on weekends as well.

    Regrettably I will be unavailable from 11/13-11/21 inclusive, but can work with you either before or after and we can work out what can be done.

    Regards,

    Robert

    One More for Steve
    11-09-2004, 09:26 PM
    Steve:

    Your E-MAIL bounced back, so here is what I had to send.

    Based on recent discussion on the forums, it is apparent that one of the best ways to handle things is for you to consider the last offer I made to you in our most recent conversation. All discussion aside, no one wants this matter to be put to rest that either of us, and the best way to handle, I believe, now that the board set has "travelled", is for a personal verification by a senior TG official.

    My proposal is simple.

    At my own personal expense, I will arrange to fly out to your home area at a weekend day that we can agree upon, with the intent of watching you play "Donkey Kong" as many times as you feel like.

    I will bring in tow a TG-approved boardset in-hand that we will arrange to obtain, purchase and have verified by a recognized expert in the field.

    Upon completion, that boardset can be given to you as a gift of Twin Galaxies. It is the least we can do assuming you no longer have one, and I will personally absorb that expense as well.

    This is in the interests of yourself, the policies of Twin Galaxies, and to the entire gaming community.

    No gamer in their right mind would want to know that such an incredible feat might not be at the right setting, in any way shape or form. Honesty and the truth is the core of Twin Galaxies values. The gaming community need not know every aspect of what has transpired...it is neither their business nor should it ever be. However, the issue of the existance of a 1.006M score is now public, and TG is obligated to define it's position clearly why such an incredible achievement has not been mentioned publicly or even on our own site's public sections.

    Our overall position is simple. The score has been submitted to TG, and was watched but not yet finished with the verification process due to technical reasons. There is no vindictiveness in this position. It is a matter of fact, and one that I am hoping my solution will allow to become moot should you by chance happen to equal or better yet tie your previous mark.

    So, the offer I extend once again, and without prejudice. You may contact me at either my work or home numbers. Know that I am unavailable from Nov13-21 inclusive, so if you can reach me within the next 2-3 days, wonderful. If not, then after November 21st.

    As a gamer, and a very talented one, it was a distinct pleasure watching your tapes, and to be the person at TG that you contacted with your achievement announcement. This is what I look forward to as a member of TG. And although I spent approx 35-40 hours crafting the unreleased article, I consider this much more than time well spent on my part. Therefore, as a fellow gamer, nothing would please me more than to do whatever I can to help you get a verified performance registered with TG.

    Although you are legally free to work with whatever 3rd party sources you may choose to interract with, you know my position on your involvement with one in particular. Ultimately, the path you take from this point going forward is your own.

    The choice is yours, Steve. Let me know if you choose the path that will assist you with no strings attached, or if you wish to continue dealing with that 3rd party individual. Agaim the choice is yours.

    Respectfully,

    Robert T Mruczek
    Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee
    Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion
    rmruczek@doremus.com

    ******************
    Just to clear things up, I am definitely willing to have Robert come out and view my performance and appreciate his generous offer. I'll call you tomorrow Robert.

    For the record, my board is a legitimate board, bought from a legitimate vendor, and was tested as perfect by this vendor. Doesn't the vendor have a right to check out the board first as a courtesy to them? After all, their reputation is at stake as well, and they might want to test it before a different person tests it. Seems reasonable to me. At this moment, the board is in the vendor's hands and has not touched this 3rd party's hands. I have wanted to ship the board to TG's tester and they will have nothing to do with it. The whole thing is fruitless anyway because testing a board after a game is played proves diddly. I've said it before and I'll say it again, how does anybody know that the board in question is the actual board that I achieved the million unless they trust me in saying it is? I could have said that the board I used was no longer in my possession and no one could have argued against it. If TG doesn't trust that the board in question is at the vendor's place and is untampered, then why should they trust me when I say that the board in question is THE BOARD? Bottom line, there's no way of proving it, so I guess the only way to verify scores for any title, not just Donkey Kong, should be live. I believe that all ROM's can be tampered with to make the game play easier, so it stands to reason that no games should be verified unless witnessed by a ref and the board has been deemed legit through testing. I just hope that whoever claims the Donkey Kong title has to undergo this same process. I am by far one of the most easy guys to get along with, you can ask those who have met me, and for me to say that I am frustrated has merit. I've done everything TG has asked and am willing to ship THE BOARD to their tester right now. I flew down to San Jose with money (I did not have) to show my skills at their request. I was told over the phone that if I performed well, then the TG personnel would decide my score's fate. In 5 games, I reached the kill screen and showed I could play the game. What else could I have done to prove myself. If I was a fraud, would I have went down to San Jose? There was no mention of board testing at this time and I thought my score would stand since I did what TG asked. But then a mandatory board test was called to my surprise. All I ask is that the verification process be made clear up front and not made up as she goes. No one can expect to play any sporting game and be subject to shifting rules while the competitors are exempt from these rules. TG has been viewing several tapes of mine for almost a year now and could have said that a PCB test was mandatory long ago so that the appropriate steps could be taken. I respect what TG does and know it's a thankless job, but I think that this situation could have been handled better by TG as well. I am not trying to hide from any verification, I just want any competitor to have a board test as well, even if the board is believed valid. Components on a board can break unnoticed and alter play. Isn't that only fair?

    I have accepted the fact that TG has dismissed my score and I will probably have to replay, so the above is just to shed light on what transpired. People need to hear both sides of the story.

    Steve Wiebe
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  6. 10-29-2019, 10:56 AM
    thx, threads like this explain so much. You can really read steve's frustration. Its amazing how the old tg had no governance and just based on whim of the day changed the rules to get the results they wanted.

    This does alot to explain so many fake scores getting in as well as so many real scores and even entire tracks being removed
    Roy was Right
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  7. 10-29-2019, 01:11 PM
    The contents of that entire back-and-forth discussion as well as additional gamer input are unedited, so the sequence is preserved.

    At that time, for the benefit of those who did not remember, Steve had already achieved his 1M submission on VHS but the score had not yet been approved by TG. While it was a collective effort, I want to stress that the major point of contention had to do with the discovery of Shildt's involvement with the boards AND, on top of that, pressure from Billy not to have the scores accepted because, and I quote, TG already had egg on its face from the 947K submission which was found to be DDK.

    Truth be told...had that discovery by Kuh/Rodgers not been made, Steve's 1M score would have been recognized as the accompanying article had already been written prior to that...in addition to his 999.5K which had pre-dated that submission by a matter of days. The only other nay-saying was coming from Billy, and that whole "gummy substance" thing was basically fed to me BY Billy, Kuh and I cannot remember if Chris was part of that discussion, but definitely the other two, but Walter definitely was a deciding factor here as I was in no position to dictate TG policy on such a unique situation without fellow Board of Director approval including the founder.
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  8. 10-29-2019, 03:28 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    [snip]
    Truth be told...had that discovery by Kuh/Rodgers not been made, Steve's 1M score would have been recognized as the accompanying article had already been written prior to that...in addition to his 999.5K which had pre-dated that submission by a matter of days. The only other nay-saying was coming from Billy, and that whole "gummy substance" thing was basically fed to me BY Billy, Kuh and I cannot remember if Chris was part of that discussion, but definitely the other two, but Walter definitely was a deciding factor here as I was in no position to dictate TG policy on such a unique situation without fellow Board of Director approval including the founder.
    I wondered if you could shed some additional light on when Donkey Kong became such a heavily contested and controversial title for adjudication. I understand that during 2004 there was some documentary filming under way - was the filming the catalyst, or was Mitchell taking a much keener interest in the title after Tim surpassed Mitchell's 1980s score in 2000 I think? I did listen to a podcast from June 2000 where he stated that he was interested in being the first to reach a million because people "said it couldn't be done" and in doing so, he would put the score so high he wouldn't have to compete on it anymore.
    Likes grinder2112 liked this post
  9. 10-29-2019, 03:53 PM
    damn ok i made it through that thread. I can verify almost nothing was left out. The thread fairly quickly turns into discussions about copyright and banned tactics and the banned tactics turn into a discussion about hypothetic mspacman glitches, and then in depth debate about rng of mspacman

    there were a couple comments pretty much just saying more of what rtm listed. the only other comment i saw of interest -- which was largely ignored -- was firebrandx questioning how come often times arcade boards with PROVEN modifications were allowed as long as there was no known effect on gameplay (and i'll throw in that some with known effcect on gameplay were also allowed) yet for some reason steve's game where noone can find any difference in game play was excluded. I think this is very valid, cause often times with opinion things, two different points of view are equally valid, but jumping back and forth shows a bias. We see a real bias in how steve was treated, apparently though the bias wasnt even about helping billy or hurting steve so much as it was about hating anything roy related even in the slightest.

    not wanna risk a gummy substance? i get it. by why ignore firebrandx very very relevant question on the point about how come all the other cases of modified boards that get a pass?

    I also saw some evidence the original thread was edited as people quote and argue about things that are no longer there so i'm not sure if that affects anything.
    Roy was Right
  10. 10-29-2019, 08:15 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener View Post
    I wondered if you could shed some additional light on when Donkey Kong became such a heavily contested and controversial title for adjudication. I understand that during 2004 there was some documentary filming under way - was the filming the catalyst, or was Mitchell taking a much keener interest in the title after Tim surpassed Mitchell's 1980s score in 2000 I think? I did listen to a podcast from June 2000 where he stated that he was interested in being the first to reach a million because people "said it couldn't be done" and in doing so, he would put the score so high he wouldn't have to compete on it anymore.


    RTM REPLY - I can't remember the exact date, or even whether this happened while I was still part of TG or not, but someone crafted a DK-specific set of rules which contained a multi-step process for submission that was so convoluted that I was unsure if anyone would be submitting further taped DK performances at that point.

    Could have been back when either Patterson, Blaine or Dave was running things after I left, I just forget which.
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