How did an Ikari Warriors arcade score from 1987 suddenly appear in the database?

  1. How did an Ikari Warriors arcade score from 1987 suddenly appear in the database?

    10-01-2019, 02:46 AM
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/ikari-warriors/arcade

    That 1,799,000 score never used to be there. I don't know when exactly it showed up, but back in 2008 I'd recently gotten an Ikari Warriors machine, which was my late best friend Corey's favorite arcade game from when we were kids in the 1980s, and we both were playing it just about every day, competing with each other for the high score, as well as trying to unofficially beat the Twin Galaxies record, which, at the time, was Walt Price's 1,414,500-point score (and soon thereafter, Noah Banwarth's 1,445,600-point score). We both ended up beating it (using Twin Galaxies DIP switch settings and no continues), with my highest score being 1,532,300 points and Corey's being 1,571,100 points.

    After Corey was killed in Afghanistan I didn't have any motivation to play the game and my machine collected dust for many years. Recently I dusted it off, played a couple of games, and checked Twin Galaxies to see what the current high score was, and as if by magic, an outrageously score from 1987 was now in the top spot; no tape for evidence; just an unnamed referee. So, some 30 years later, some referee happened to recall that score? Is that what happened?

    I won't go so far as to say that 1,799,000 is an impossible score, because I don't know for sure, though I'd have to see it to believe it. Both Corey's score and my score were done with a lot of point-pressing. A typical no-point-pressing score is in the 1,350,000-point range if you beat the game (~350,000 being the actual in-game points that were scored, and the extra 1,000,000 being a bonus that's automatically awarded for beating the game). You can see an example of this in this video I made about 6 years ago where my goal wasn't a high score, but rather, to beat the game on just one life (rather than just one credit):


    When point-pressing you'd inherently use all of your lives because that's part of maximizing your score.

    Opportunities to point-press are limited because the AI starts rapid-firing high-explosive missiles at you if you stay in one place for too long, plus there are only a few places in the game where enemies continually respawn, so getting an extra ~450,000 points over a no-point-pressing game (which more than doubles the amount of in-game points scored) is a little hard to believe.

    But regardless of whether the 1,799,000 is possible or not, a referee-verified score from 1987 suddenly showing up in the TG database decades later seems dubious to me.
    Last edited by maxim_recoil; 10-01-2019 at 01:47 PM.
  2. 10-01-2019, 09:23 AM
    other removed games somehow got readded. I have no idea if it was intentional or bug related. But if you can prove it was previously removed, that might make for a helpful challenge. or of course just proving why it should be removed.
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  3. 10-01-2019, 02:49 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    other removed games somehow got readded. I have no idea if it was intentional or bug related. But if you can prove it was previously removed, that might make for a helpful challenge. or of course just proving why it should be removed.
    Do you mean, prove that the 1,799,000-point score wasn't there before? As for "removed", I don't know if it was removed and then re-added, or if it was added for the first time at some point in the 2010s; I just know that it wasn't there, nor had I ever heard of a 1.799m score on Ikari Warriors, during the time period that Corey and I were playing it a lot.

    I can't seem to access past versions of the Ikari Warriors leaderboard via the Wayback Machine, however, there's an article about my Ikari Warriors machine in issue 80 of Retro Gamer magazine (published in 2010), and the then-current Twin Galaxies high score is mentioned (on page 78):

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    Note that Walt Price's 1,414,500-point record that I mentioned in this interview was beaten by Noah Banwarth's 1,445,600-point score between the time of the interview and the time of publication, and the author of the article (Martyn Carroll) pointed that out himself, meaning he checked Twin Galaxies at the time, of his own volition, to fact-check my claim, so this isn't a case of him just taking my word for it.
    Last edited by maxim_recoil; 10-01-2019 at 03:02 PM.
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  4. 10-04-2019, 11:05 AM
    Hey there. I'm the 2nd place holder (Noah Banwarth). When I broke the record in 2010, Stan's score wasn't listed in the database. His score from 1987 had been contested and removed from the database at some point, but when ownership of Twin Galaxies changed hands, a bunch of contested scores were let back in. I was similarly confused when the score magically appeared and dethrowned me. I posted about this at the time and got a reply from Robert Mruczek who was the head referee when the score was originally removed.

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/content...usion#comments

    For some reason, my original post on that thread can't be seen, but his reply can be.

    I agree with you that the score is probably bogus. I went so far as to collect some info in order to enter a dispute in Twin Galaxy's dispute system but the process for doing so is a little mystifying I haven't had time to figure it all out. Basically, I got in contact with Mark Alpiger and he sent me scans of a flyer from the 1987 event that the record was allegedly set at, and from what I can tell, the documented dip switch settings for Ikari Warriors are not the official settings listed in the database. If I remember correctly, it doesn't even document what the settings were at the event in the second bank of dip switches. Personally, this combined with the statistical unlikely hood of getting to 1.8 million is more than enough justification for removing the score, and at some point I hope to enter a dispute.

    Oh, and a while ago I saw the article about you in Retro Gamer magazine. It got me motivated to get my Ikari cabinet restored and to bypass that awful converter board they put in there like you did. It would be fun if we could get Stan's score removed from the database and start competing for the high score again.
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  5. 10-04-2019, 12:53 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by gaknar View Post
    Hey there. I'm the 2nd place holder (Noah Banwarth). When I broke the record in 2010, Stan's score wasn't listed in the database. His score from 1987 had been contested and removed from the database at some point, but when ownership of Twin Galaxies changed hands, a bunch of contested scores were let back in. I was similarly confused when the score magically appeared and dethrowned me. I posted about this at the time and got a reply from Robert Mruczek who was the head referee when the score was originally removed.

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/content...usion#comments

    For some reason, my original post on that thread can't be seen, but his reply can be.
    Thanks for the link; that's an interesting thread.

    I agree with you that the score is probably bogus. I went so far as to collect some info in order to enter a dispute in Twin Galaxy's dispute system but the process for doing so is a little mystifying I haven't had time to figure it all out. Basically, I got in contact with Mark Alpiger and he sent me scans of a flyer from the 1987 event that the record was allegedly set at, and from what I can tell, the documented dip switch settings for Ikari Warriors are not the official settings listed in the database. If I remember correctly, it doesn't even document what the settings were at the event in the second bank of dip switches.
    I don't know what the approximate maximum possible score is. I'd say that ~1.6 million is definitely possible though, because I watched Corey score 1,571,100 points on my own machine. However, getting an extra 200,000+ points beyond that... like I said, I'd have to see it to believe it.

    Personally, this combined with the statistical unlikely hood of getting to 1.8 million is more than enough justification for removing the score
    I agree. If the DIP switches weren't right, that alone is enough to invalidate the score. Do you still have the scans of the flyer?

    Oh, and a while ago I saw the article about you in Retro Gamer magazine. It got me motivated to get my Ikari cabinet restored and to bypass that awful converter board they put in there like you did. It would be fun if we could get Stan's score removed from the database and start competing for the high score again.
    That's awesome. And yeah, that Dynamo-to-SNK pinout adapter is ridiculous. It's strange that Dynamo thought it made more sense to create that adapter PCB rather than a proper wiring harness for Ikari Warriors, since the latter is a lot easier (just plug the wires into the right type of edge connector) and a lot more electrically sound.
    Last edited by maxim_recoil; 10-04-2019 at 01:46 PM.
  6. 10-04-2019, 02:48 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by maxim_recoil View Post
    I agree. If the DIP switches weren't right, that alone is enough to invalidate the score. Do you still have the scans of the flyer?
    I do. I will contact you.
  7. 10-16-2019, 02:53 AM
    That's a questionable RoadBlasters score as well. Go Stan. So good all your scores seem too good to be true.

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?player=11158

    Hec
    If you need me, I'll be on the 7th floor. No Mames. No steering wheels.
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