Dispute: Matthew Felix - Atari 2600 / VCS - Alligator People - EMU - Game 1, Difficulty B - - Player: Rodrigo Lopes - Score: 1,111,903

Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. Dispute: Matthew Felix - Atari 2600 / VCS - Alligator People - EMU - Game 1, Difficulty B - - Player: Rodrigo Lopes - Score: 1,111,903

    11-15-2019, 01:05 PM
    Atari 2600 / VCS - Alligator People - EMU - Game 1, Difficulty B -
    Score Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=23612
    Rules
    5 Lives only. Scoring will be stopped after your 5th death.
    Player Name
    Rodrigo Lopes
    Original Adjudication
    N/A
    Verification Method
    DVD
    Verification Date
    2006-09-03
    Disputed Score
    1,111,903 (Rank 1)
    Disputed By
    starcrytas
    Dispute Evidence / Rationale
    Score can only increment in 5's. We should not round up or down to correct a typo. We should see the recording to know the correct score. Otherwise, remove!




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  2. 11-15-2019, 01:51 PM
    In addition to Scott's assessment, this link contains instructions and a point scoring table that was drawn up for the game.

    http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari...le-_11759.html

    I would add that the same score discrepancy was present with an earlier submission on the same game, (I'll post the link to the 2005 thread later) illustrating that the final score was not an entry error. A *lot* of VCS games increase in single point increments - but not this one.

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  3. 11-15-2019, 02:01 PM
    Here's the thread where Lopes' previous record of 72,169 is announced by Flewin. It sounds like from Flewin's tone that he hasn't necessarily reviewed the submissions per se when posting the announcement. Lopes also posts in the thread.

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...-Rodrigo-Lopes
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  4. 11-15-2019, 03:38 PM
    I looked at a few other YouTube videos of this game. Every game I see shows the scores always ending with either 0 or 5.

    This dispute looks legitimate to me with that last "3". And yes, a previous score of his had a "9", too.
  5. 11-15-2019, 03:46 PM
    The ROM is legally available on several sites, including AtariAge. Use your favourite A2600 emulator (I used Stella) to try it out. Like with the YouTube videos, the lowest score increment is 5 points, meaning that the last digit will be a 5 or 0 as Gibgirl stated.
  6. 11-15-2019, 04:28 PM
    The dispute is valid, I watched my record and the game is "Planet of the Apes".

    https://planetoftheapes.fandom.com/w...s_(Atari_game)


    "In 1999, the prototype ROM was found in a case marked "Alligator People". With no documents and nothing to give any indication to the contrary, it floated around for about three years, while collectors puzzled over what the game might be and how to play it. Collector Matt 'Tempest' Reichert, webmaster of AtariProtos.com, uncovered the game's true identity in 2002 - it's assumed that this prototype was simply put into the wrong case (they probably just used an old case they had lying around)."
    Rodrigo Lopes
    Former Twin Galaxies Referee
    Metroid Team Member from Brazil
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  7. 11-17-2019, 03:57 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Siliconian View Post
    The dispute is valid, I watched my record and the game is "Planet of the Apes".

    You know, I would not mind ROUNDING UP this score, as there are much more important scores to deal with...
    OH, its impossible? Well, I did NOT say it was a GOOD idea to round up!!!...In fact, it goes against everything I believe in !


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  8. 11-17-2019, 04:05 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcade View Post
    You know, I would not mind ROUNDING UP this score, as there are much more important scores to deal with...
    OH, its impossible? Well, I did NOT say it was a GOOD idea to round up!!!...In fact, it goes against everything I believe in !


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    i respect you but we have a very strong difference of opinion. I know you still value the old database, and want to use the former referee suggested way of dealing with proven fake scores -- round them into a possible score. While that may have seemed acceptable at one point, it would be viewed as corrupt and problematic today. Score are either removed, in rare cases moved to another track, or left in track. Guessing on possible scores to cover up mistakes is no longer an option.
  9. 11-17-2019, 09:42 PM
    Yes, the story of the Planet of the Apes ROM is an interesting chapter in Atari 2600 history. The Planet of the Apes ROM was actually housed in a plastic cartridge labelled "Alligator People" upon discovery in 1996, but it wasn't until 2002 when an examination of the game revealed it was actually Planet. The following year, the ROM for Alligator People was recovered.

    The ROMs were available at AtariAge.com for download beginning in 2002/2003 as "PlanetOfTheApes.zip" and "AlligatorPeople.zip"

    According to AtariMania, Planet of the Apes is around 70% complete as a prototype, and was only reached the point of playtesting in its development cycle. Alligator People is essentially a completed prototype (90%+ complete).

    As you know when submitting on Stella, players are required to record and demonstrate the settings used for the game via menu selection, such as controller and console (left/right difficulty settings) under game properties before selecting and loading the game ROM, which should also be clearly recorded to document for the referee the game title that is being played and submitted. The collection of ROMS is displayed alphabetically according to file name, typically ending with .zip or .bin. The DVD submission would also be accompanied by a Twin Galaxies Submission form (hardcopy or online) that would further identify the game and associated score.

    The history of competition on the Alligator People track is also interesting, despite being a rather obscure prototype.

    The inaugural record on the track was submitted by Mr. Kelly R. Flewin, which was verified on 24 August 2003 via DVD with a score of 15,805

    Flewin's record is surpassed by your September 2005 submission with a score of 72,169, a total score that earned specific notice and mention from Flewin.

    WR NEWS [Atari 2600] Rodrigo Lopes
    Verified by Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
    Alligator People - Game 1B - 72,169
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...-Rodrigo-Lopes

    Then in March 2006, the WR was claimed by Rudy Ferretti. What I found interesting is that his submission also ended in a digit other than five or zero.

    WR NEWS - Multi-Platform - Rudy Ferretti March 11, 2006
    Verified by Troy Whelan
    Alligator People - 105,038
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...Rudy-Ferretti-[03-11-2006]?p=603655#post603655

    Although his score was announced as a world record, I couldn’t confirm it was actually entered onto the scoreboard.

    Then in September 2006, the WR was reclaimed by you with a score of 1,111,903, which we learn was erroneously verified by a TG referee as an Alligator People submission.
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  10. 11-18-2019, 06:20 AM
    My apologies, I misspoke when citing Stella in reference to submission requirements as I should have simply said "emulator." I confirmed in another TG thread (May 2006) that Rodrigo Lopes used PCAE 2.6 for Atari 2600 EMU submissions. And further, that PCAE is not recorded as "input" like a MAME .inp file, but outputs an .avi file that was typically recorded to VHS format.
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