Doubts aboud allowed hardwares for performance submission

  1. Doubts aboud allowed hardwares for performance submission

    01-30-2020, 04:25 PM
    Hi, everyone! Could you help me about some doubts?

    1) I own MulticartSD, manufactured by the Brazilian Wilson Gutierrez, whose operation is similar to that of Harmony, Uno Cart, etc. Is this type of cartridge allowed in performance submissions?

    2) I will also acquire an interface produced by the Brazilian Carlos Rosley, which will allow you to use the original Atari joystick on the Raspberry. Can performances obtained in Retropie be submitted?

    3) Finally, I usually play with a joystick also made by Mr. Rosley, the Enjoy Classic model, heavily based on arcade joysticks. There being no restrictions on the use of third-party joysticks, like Slik Stik, TACs, etc, I believe that this model is also allowed. Am I correct about this?
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  2. 01-30-2020, 05:03 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by AndreSantosMG View Post
    1) I own MulticartSD, manufactured by the Brazilian Wilson Gutierrez, whose operation is similar to that of Harmony, Uno Cart, etc. Is this type of cartridge allowed in performance submissions?
    Can you provide us more information about this cartridge? I would suspect that it would be allowed, but we'll want to know a bit more before deciding.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreSantosMG View Post
    2) I will also acquire an interface produced by the Brazilian Carlos Rosley, which will allow you to use the original Atari joystick on the Raspberry. Can performances obtained in Retropie be submitted?
    Retropie submissions will definitely not be allowed for non-emulation tracks. I believe they'll be acceptable for emulation tracks, as I don't think there's any requirements of specific emulators, other than they be sufficiently accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreSantosMG View Post
    3) Finally, I usually play with a joystick also made by Mr. Rosley, the Enjoy Classic model, heavily based on arcade joysticks. There being no restrictions on the use of third-party joysticks, like Slik Stik, TACs, etc, I believe that this model is also allowed. Am I correct about this?
    This one, I suspect, will be a subject of much debate, and may likely depend on what your submission is on. With original hardware, it's likely not allowed due to sounding like it's not a commonly available controller. With emulation, though, I think things are much more lax, but I'm not too familiar with that. Showing us a picture of the controller would probably help give better advice on this.
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  3. 01-30-2020, 06:35 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl View Post
    Can you provide us more information about this cartridge? I would suspect that it would be allowed, but we'll want to know a bit more before deciding.
    MulticartSD is a Unocart with another name, said the manufacturer. I will attach some of the cartridge pictures and some menu's screens. It works with a MicroSD 8Gb. (Sorry if I do some mistakes, I never upload photos to a forum before)


    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl View Post
    Retropie submissions will definitely not be allowed for non-emulation tracks. I believe they'll be acceptable for emulation tracks, as I don't think there's any requirements of specific emulators, other than they be sufficiently accurate.
    My first goal when using the Retropie + joystick combination is to get rewards at Retroachievements. I prefer to submit possible TG records using my old friend Atari 2600 (since 1985 keeping my inner child happy), in combination with the multiplayer cartridge (if allowed). If there are specific categories where the Raspberry can be used, I'll be happy to participate eventually, but it is not my main goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl View Post
    This one, I suspect, will be a subject of much debate, and may likely depend on what your submission is on. With original hardware, it's likely not allowed due to sounding like it's not a commonly available controller. With emulation, though, I think things are much more lax, but I'm not too familiar with that. Showing us a picture of the controller would probably help give better advice on this.
    Here, my main doubt. I've no money to Slik Stik, TAC 2 and other good stuffs, but I got the Enjoy Classic Joystick in a very interesting condition to me, I paid a very reasonable price for a great product. It uses microswitches, and the joystick assembly is made with Sanwa parts, based on the best arcade control models. It is comfortable during games, and extremely resistant - it is the only joystick on which I play Decathlon without worrying about damage and breakage. Like other worldwide known joysticks, This let me to preserve my original joysticks free of wear, breakage and damage. It has no additional functions.

    Thanks in advance for your attention and help!

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  4. 01-31-2020, 04:59 AM
    Regarding the joystick, it appears as though it has only 5 buttons and5-function capability (up, down, left, right, fire), just like a CX-40, and therefore, I would approve of it.
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  5. 01-31-2020, 09:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett Holland View Post
    Regarding the joystick, it appears as though it has only 5 buttons and5-function capability (up, down, left, right, fire), just like a CX-40, and therefore, I would approve of it.
    Correct, Garrett, thanks for your attention and help.

    Enjoy Classic, like a Slik Stik or similar, is a robust and durable construction, but does not add any function. It, in fact, has only the five basic functions mentioned, and uses a standard DB9 cable. If we consider the accuracy of the controls, which does not happen with joysticks with a long time of use, we actually have a control similar to a newly manufactured or exceptionally well maintained, without new capabilities. These controls can be purchased by any Atari enthusiast. The manufacturer also produces models that do not use microswitches, but optical sensors (zero noise), but are more expensive, and I am satisfied with the entry model, which suits me well and resists even my two-year-old son playing with it.

    I was about to insert the manufacturer's Instagram here, for everyone to analyze, but I don't know if I could do that. If necessary, I could inform this. I don't know other joystick manufacturer in Brazil, but this is really a good option for me, it's cheap and useful.
  6. 02-02-2020, 07:20 PM
    I would approve. Original Console, Roms loaded to original hardware, and the controller doesn't have a turbo option.
  7. 02-03-2020, 05:25 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by timmell View Post
    I would approve. Original Console, Roms loaded to original hardware, and the controller doesn't have a turbo option.
    Timmell,

    Thanks for your attention and help. I hope this setup be approved soon.
  8. 02-12-2020, 02:45 AM
    I was asked to weigh in on this with thoughts:

    From a policy perspective:

    1.) Assuming the function used is only as data storage, and all ROMS are unaltered original software, the multicart is allowed as it falls under the same policy as an everdrive and other data storage devices. TG would ask that you optionally note in your submission description that a multicart storage device was used.

    2.) As long as a 3rd party controller is not used to provide any additional functionality beyond the standard controller functionality for the game and platform, it shall be allowed. However, be warned that if it is later definitively and demonstrably proven that the 3rd party controller you used created a substantially unfair gameplay advantage when compared to original platform controllers, your performance may get removed at that time.
  9. 02-14-2020, 02:22 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by AndreSantosMG View Post
    3) Finally, I usually play with a joystick also made by Mr. Rosley, the Enjoy Classic model, heavily based on arcade joysticks. There being no restrictions on the use of third-party joysticks, like Slik Stik, TACs, etc, I believe that this model is also allowed. Am I correct about this?


    RTM REPLY - historically there was never any prohibition on usage of 3rd party joysticks. Bear in mind that for the longest time TG had allowed usage of the "Hanaho Hot-Rod" for MAME performances and I can't remember for sure but I think players were allowed to use this in conjunction with the 2000 or 2001 "Marvel vs Capcom 2" championship at Mall of America...I was present along with TG founder Walter Day and I conducted the event...the usage of this 3rd party joystick/device was never in question as opposed to using the standard Sega DC controller.

    This was TG's policy thru end of 2006...I have no idea whether someone made a counter-declaration afterwards without realizing that prior precedent had existed for at least the ten years prior.

    Once major exception though...using the programmable features of a programmable controller...that is prohibited, such as assigning a chain of inputs to a single key for a multi-action combo in a fighting game, etc.
    Last edited by RTM; 02-14-2020 at 02:24 PM. Reason: Added a final paragraph
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  10. 02-14-2020, 02:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post
    2.) As long as a 3rd party controller is not used to provide any additional functionality beyond the standard controller functionality for the game and platform, it shall be allowed. However, be warned that if it is later definitively and demonstrably proven that the 3rd party controller you used created a substantially unfair gameplay advantage when compared to original platform controllers, your performance may get removed at that time.


    RTM REPLY - Jace, there are existing examples of where a different controller does allow for a substantially unfair gameplay advantage compared to the original platform and TG has historically accepted this without this being a problem. I'll cite a few.

    MAME and "Sea Wolf" - using MAME with a standard mouse is a physical advantage over the "periscope" for a number of reasons. For starters, the periscope only allows a portion of the entire screen to be visible at a time, nearly 100% but not entirely. Second, the physical back/forth motion of the periscope is substantially more difficult than the left/right sweep of the mouse. Yet bear in mind that there is no possible way to duplicate the physicality of the periscope with MAME...no such controller exists, thus TG has always accepted usage of the mouse. The same applies to the sequel "Sea Wolf II"

    MAME and "Space Harrier" - for starters, the mounted/moving chair clearly does not exist and TG has never mandated that the flight controller style joystick be used for such submissions. Mouse and/or keyboard have always been allowed. Same for other flight controller stick titles such as but not limited to "Tron".

    MAME and "Star Wars" - although it is possible for players to build their own yoke controller, the vast majority do not for MAME purposes, thus usage of a mouse and/or keyboard has always been allowed...however for yoke-based titles this is a distinct DIS-advantage for the player

    MAME and "Pole Position" - as most players do not own a wheel/pedal setup, most players have been for years using a mouse and/or joystick combination. The same applies to most driving titles such as but not limited to "Night Driver".

    MAME and multi-button titles - there are several titles which boast a large number of buttons and controller types so unique that no one could possibly own one that is commensurate to the arcade original. Such titles include "Top Secret", "Spy Hunter" and the obscure vector title "Sundance" which had a 9-button 3x3 grid controller panel - https://www.arcade-museum.com/game_d...p?game_id=9860 - thus in these specific examples, players have no choice but to use they keyboard controller configured as to their personal preferences to account for all of the action button choice possibilities.
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