Personal Information Required to Submit Scores?

  1. 02-03-2020, 07:00 PM
    i think a lot of good points are made

    there are in fact reasons to care about privacy. we dont have any pscyho sore losers currently, but we have in the past, and if tg grows i'm sure we wil again. but at the same time you cant use things indireclty resulitng in exclusion as an automatic reason for removal. Twin Galaxies is also exclusionary to people who cant afford interent -- and yes we did in fact have one complaint of that already as someone wanted to be able to submit for their friend that dosent use internet. Poeple often complain arcade requirements can be exclusionary to people who dont own the arcade and cant get the settings right. any requirement is going to have some people that cant fulfill the requirement. i think the word "exclusionary" while techincally accurate carries some real implications with it. so although i think we should take safety seriously and see if we can improve it, i also dont think the fact that not everyone can fulfill every requiment means that requirmeents have to disappear

    thers also been good points made in favor of handles actually offering benefits that i have nothing to add to other than say i agree

    my biggest concern is multiple accounts (and frankly that means to me team accounts are a bigger priority than this). by forcing real name that now provides a way to catch multiple accounts. i wouldnt care if the name was kept secret, and only forced to be provided to admin, but i do think that a minimum name should be provided to admin so as to stop fake accounts. fake voting isnt the only concern. people also like to have their scores padded with scores of others underneath them -- no need to mention names, we know some refs made sure there were submissions under their scores to make their own scores look better. if those guys did it rest assured others want to as well.
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  2. 02-03-2020, 08:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPlayer10 View Post
    I was looking over the rules, and it looks like it is requiring my personal information (including address, phone number, etc...) to be able to submit to the leaderboards. I don't mind giving my first and last name, or even the city and state that I live in, but I do mind giving my actual address and phone number, especially in light of...hacks...just to have my scores accepted


    RTM REPLY - TG has always been quite different than most other gaming sites and record-tracking sites. For starters, the organization began when the concept of a "gaming alias" did not even exist. It was for all intent and purpose a "grassroots" organization intended to honour the gamer and their accomplishments in such a way that they could easily compare themselves to their peers.

    Media exposure to new record scores, for better or worse, was initially scarce and was limited to a select-few titles and players. But when the organization "re-booted" in the mid-late 1990's the information and format was maintained.

    The gaming community was not interested if "Gaming God" or "Pinball King" set a record score, but they were interested when John Smith or Tom Anderson did. They were interested in knowing where their peers were and where gaming achievements were being set...not home addresses but countries, states and cities. They could celebrate the fact that a fellow record holder was in their home town, whether they ever met the person or not. These were the grassroots intentions of the original business model.

    I read the modern-era recaps of how some records progressed over the years and how gamers are exclusively referred to by nickname only...you either know them or of them or you don't. Personalization is lost. To a certain degree the thrill of knowing that "Mad Dog" from at best a specific continent is the record holder as opposed to gamer known by their actual name and locale is missing and takes away from how believable and relate-able the scoreboard is.

    It may be "old school" to require the information, but it carries with it a brand with a rich history.

    What might be a good idea is for TG to park all but the name and state/country of a gamer on separate servers that are cutoff from the rest of the system and which are used for internal purposes only.

    For a brief while decades back TG had a host of "nickname" record holders with actual scores in the database and it was a complete mess. Some gamers jokingly submitted arcade leaderboard scores using the actual 3-character initials as their "nickname". Others created bogus nicknames such as "Ku Klux Flintstone" (look it up...1st TG Book of Records, published).

    In the modern era it's all about gamers creating their own "brands" and to be honest that takes away, to a certain degree, the pride that a gamer has in their own records. When the "nickname" is sufficiently unique AND the gamer has made their mark, it works out great, but when the gamer is not in the top ten percent of the leaderboard, having a nickname such as "Zzzap" kind of gets lost in the wind really fast in terms of recognition. So in all fairness, when you look at the modern era of "gaming aliases", take an honest look at how those on top are revered by their peers as opposed to "all the rest".

    With hundreds of thousands of gamers out there who compete out of the hundreds of millions who play for fun, you can easily get lost in the mix with your gaming accomplishments and accolades unless you are top-ranked, and that mindset honestly is geared towards modern social-media standards and is a bit exclusionary and even biased towards a select few. While it clearly works out financially for a good number of gamers, it leaves the rest in the shuffle as wannabes and there is a certain sadness to that. But when you look at, for example, a classic arcade "Donkey Kong" leaderboard, especially on the DK forum, you take can greater pride in being there by your real name an not a "nickname" or "gaming alias".

    Just an opinion.

    The security concern you mentioned is quite valid. Perhaps if TG owner and Head Custodian Jace Hall is reading this he might contemplate a way to "split" the housing of certain personal info so as to avoid unwanted identity theft issues.
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  3. 02-03-2020, 08:40 PM
    Last thing I'll say is that because we don't require proof of identity, I don't think the real name requirements do anything of real value. It won't stop fake names, but just exposes real names of those who are already going to play fair. And if TG wants proof of identity, go ahead, but you think the user base is small now?

    And remember that we're only hearing from the people who were willing to go through and provide the information - the discussion is going to be inherently biased due to self-selection bias.
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  4. 02-03-2020, 08:53 PM
    One more note, and this echoes what "Snowflake" mentioned earlier...the possibility of multiple accounts by the same person using different "nicknames" or "gaming aliases".

    In the golden-era of classic arcade gaming there were "leaderboards" displayed with typically 3-character initials for the top 10 or so scores. Top gamers on, for example, "Defender" or "Centipede" could in short order lock up the leaderboard with their initials...first to show off their skills among their peers, second for the accomplishment of locking up the leaderboard typically for the fun of it, and third (on occasion) to just "stick it" to local competitors and rivals who then could not leave their mark as well.

    However, it was also possible for the same gamer, on the TG leaderboard with the top three, five, ten or more scores on a title that they had a virtual lock at being the best on, thus creating a nearly impenetrable barrier through which gamers would have an extremely difficult time piercing....possibly ever.

    If the top two "Pole Position" or "Crystal Castles" players each pulled this stunt back in the day then nobody in these 30+ past years would have cracked into the top ten or more on either title, depending on the extent to which such a stunt would be perpetrated.

    With today's "ESI" dynamics, for example, if there was no "vetting" of new player information there could be a way for one champion on a title, who was just a little better than their underdog competitor, could bury their rival's highest potential ESI rating by clogging up the top ten or more spots with bogus performances...just for sh*ts and giggles.

    In the modern era, to create the illusion of extreme competitiveness, someone could pull that very same stunt with the speed run community easily...owning the top spot and submitting "near misses" under a variety of nicknames, to create the appearance that their best score is holding its own amidst a massive array of competition.

    All in all, there will always be a familiar appeal to seeing names, actual names, associated with scores and not having to bother to relate to gamers by their "gaming alias". That mindset is largely the way street gangs operate and certain divisions of the music community, and to a very SMALL extent the art community (think "Banksy"). I personally believe that gaming needs to be better than this.
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  5. 02-03-2020, 09:04 PM
    Anyone care to mention what about the TG registration process today prevents someone from making a fake or secondary account? If it wasn't for the fact it's specifically an activity that can get you banned for life, I'd give it a shot right now to try and post in this thread from a verified fake account.
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  6. 02-03-2020, 09:17 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl View Post
    Anyone care to mention what about the TG registration process today prevents someone from making a fake or secondary account? If it wasn't for the fact it's specifically an activity that can get you banned for life, I'd give it a shot right now to try and post in this thread from a verified fake account.
    The consequence just prevented you from creating a 2nd account. You didn't want to risk being banned for life of your primary account.
  7. 02-03-2020, 10:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by timmell View Post
    The consequence just prevented you from creating a 2nd account. You didn't want to risk being banned for life of your primary account.
    True, but would have worked just as well if TG didn't show real names on the leaderboards. It's orthogonal to the real names discussion.
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  8. 02-04-2020, 08:58 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl View Post
    ...would have worked just as well if TG didn't show real names on the leaderboards...


    RTM REPLY - disagree...having the real names of the players gives more of a feeling of authenticity and professionalism than having "nicknames".

    Of course the issue of having bogus scores within the database is a separate matter entirely. Even so, it is far preferable to see actual names than just "XAN" in 1st place, "Gaming Guy" in 2nd, "Raster" in 3rd, etc. It's meaningless.
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  9. 02-04-2020, 11:08 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    RTM REPLY - disagree...having the real names of the players gives more of a feeling of authenticity and professionalism than having "nicknames".

    Of course the issue of having bogus scores within the database is a separate matter entirely. Even so, it is far preferable to see actual names than just "XAN" in 1st place, "Gaming Guy" in 2nd, "Raster" in 3rd, etc. It's meaningless.
    I agree with RTM here.
    The whole reason you submit a score is for your name to be printed.
    Various fake score boards have used alias names and they did not stood the test of time.
    People that have hide behind a mask...?
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  10. 02-07-2020, 10:44 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by francoisadt View Post
    I agree with RTM here.
    The whole reason you submit a score is for your name to be printed.
    Various fake score boards have used alias names and they did not stood the test of time.
    People that have hide behind a mask...?

    RTM REPLY - the following video is made by one of my favourite YouTube content creators and illustrates some of my points...



    In this video only "nicknames" or "gaming aliases" is discussed. In the modern era gamers will likely remember these from their peers or even from the prior generation of speed runners, but as time goes on there is no historical master list of all speed runners, gaming aliases and nicknames. There is nothing to, say, prevent a "DemonX" from gaming today and another one to adopt that moniker 35 years from now.

    However, you will likely never see another pro athlete competing under the names Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Jesse Owens or Johnny Unitas again. Of course a more common name like "Michael Jordan" may very well come up again...and may have already...thus confusion between the two will exist when it happens.

    This is why in Pro-Wrestling the personae known as "Stone Cold Steve Austin" is known by the "Steve Austin" name rather than his REAL name of "Steve Williams" because that name was already in use by "Doctor Death" Steve Williams, another wrestler. SO to avoid confusion, another name was used for professional reasons.

    In listening to that video above, while it is most interesting I cannot easily relate to it because only nicknames are being cited. To me, and that's in part because I started in the hobby before "gaming aliases" was an issue, hearing that "XXX" set a new mark is nothing that I can relate to. And while historically I make a point to keep track with gamers over the years, I cannot ever see myself bothering to keep track of nicknames and gaming aliases save for a very select few (I'll remember that "DBH" is Don Hayes, "AWE" is Greg Erway and "MSP" is Michael Sao Pedro", but those are among the very few)

    Inherently a name carries with it a degree of seriousness. In the US Open it's for example Roger Federer vs Rafael Nadal...but if it was for example Serena Williams vs "TennisGal" no one really gives a you-know-what...and ticket sales will drop accordingly.

    There is a certain unstated but ever-present arrogance and egotistical outlook in referring to one's self by a nickname (especially when that nickname was selected by the gamer in question),,,same for gamers that forever bring up their nickname at the drop of the hat (such as someone who keeps using the term "Player of the Century" in all their interviews).

    Overall, the TG site gains more than it loses by maintaining the original precepts and protocols.
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