Personal Information Required to Submit Scores?

  1. 02-11-2020, 10:34 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    RTM REPLY

    As for my own change of forum name, again the forum was a separate section of the TG site and it was programmed to have the username appear. The player had the option of putting their real name as part of their signature line or, if they chose, to use their real name as their username, There was never any policy that dictated what they had to do in that respect.

    You and the author of this thread seem to believe that there is a "cultural divide" or even a new management divide when such is hardly the case.
    i think i appreciate most of what you said, so it sounds like the stuff i edited out largely backed my point that fake names got in, but make the counter point that the policy was real name. so it sounds more like real names were required but that requirement was poorly enforce

    as for the two parts i left in the quote i stronlgy disagree. you didnt just change your forum name you changed BOTH your forum and real name. if you recall a few of us complained and you argued until we reported you to jace for violations of TOS at which point you realized in order to not have your account wiped you'd be allowd to keep your forum name whatever you like but you had to fix your real name. i know you remember this, and since the debate was in an official submission it is preserved, i'm sure it can be dug up if you really want.

    as for the final line, well whos putting words in whoms mouth now. it was you who talked about differences/divide -- which to some degree is real. the only divide i see is between a few boomers and everyone else. sometimes the rest of us get lumped in with the dinosaurs and so misunderstandings results in a bigger divide than need be, but after a little dialogue members of both groups usually realize they're not so far apart.

    look when you read the anti-tg comments, alot of them are antiquated. the hate against tg is often based on things that are no longer real. billy and todd's ban definitley hurt our reputation -- but not why billy claims. people see the ban and somehow get the idea that proves current tg allows cheating when the exact opposite is true. they look at everything billy was caught doing and somehow think that means tg still allows that nonsense. i have full faith the damage of the past will eventually stop tarnishing the present. it takes a while to repair a reputation, and that really is the real source of the artiifical divide that now exists. we have still have to bare the reputation that the past earned.

    people are learning though. look at all the new members. I'm pretty proud for example of my part in copying over some intellivision speed run tracks -- with the owners consent. no accusation of plagiarism. just the benefit of being able to dual list accomlishments. i even have several runs on a speed run account. though i dont plan to use it much, in fact i already forgot my password lol. but the point is we are recovering.
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  2. 02-11-2020, 07:15 PM
    I'm seeing two people trying to force/prove a "hypothesis" that there is some form of "generational divide" or "cultural divide"...that much is clear, here.

    My own personal choice to change my TG username/name is clouding the issue and not indicative of the entire point of the original thread. It's a tangent and does not support the "hypothesis".

    Historical facts have been provided as to when/where in TG for scoreboard and forum nicknames and "gaming aliases" were allowed (or not).

    The original question...SHOULD personal information be required to submit scores...is quickly becoming obscured by a tangent.
  3. 02-11-2020, 08:05 PM
    Before returning to the topic at hand, I wanted to share a video that I shared last year featuring a "debate" about the merits of speedrunning between two Twin Galaxies alumni - Walter Day on the pro side, and Billy Mitchell on the con side.

    EDIT: Argh, I keep forgetting you can't "start" videos from a specific time when posting to TG, so please fast forward the video to 18:06 for the pertinent debate.



    It's an interesting change for Mitchell since back in 2000 he said "The person who knows the game best is also the person who can finish a perfect [Pac-Man] game the fastest. It is possible that in time others will also achieve a perfect game. However, history will honor the fastest time as the best performance."

    https://www.mameworld.info/net/pacma...ory/p11_01.htm
    Last edited by The Evener; 02-11-2020 at 08:10 PM.
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  4. 02-11-2020, 08:31 PM
    At the risk of dating myself, there was a similar divide between using real names / sharing private information when obtaining accounts on Bulletin Board Systems. In the early 80s, any given medium-sized city would have dozens that computer users could dial into hosted by individuals with an extra phone line and a computer to run the BBS. Some would allow you to apply for an account using a handle with no exchange of personal info. Others would allow you to use a handle for your screen name but would ask for real name and phone number as part of the application. Others still would only let you use your real name as your screen name along with your personal info on the application.

    Those sysops who required personal info on the application up to and including "real name" screen names would argue that it was a means for them to weed out accounts set up for dubious purposes, and also to ensure a certain level of "responsibility" was shouldered by users of the BBS. Since many of us would frequent multiple BBSes, we recognized the absence of some users from those boards requiring personal info. In that sense, we see a repeat of the same considerations in the context of TG today when new members are deciding whether they wish to join or not. I'm sure that there are users who won't create a membership here since they don't wish to provide any personal info, but I don't think it's a generational barrier per se.
    Last edited by The Evener; 02-11-2020 at 08:42 PM.
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  5. 02-11-2020, 10:10 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener View Post
    Before returning to the topic at hand, I wanted to share a video that I shared last year featuring a "debate" about the merits of speedrunning between two Twin Galaxies alumni - Walter Day on the pro side, and Billy Mitchell on the con side.

    EDIT: Argh, I keep forgetting you can't "start" videos from a specific time when posting to TG, so please fast forward the video to 18:06 for the pertinent debate.



    It's an interesting change for Mitchell since back in 2000 he said "The person who knows the game best is also the person who can finish a perfect [Pac-Man] game the fastest. It is possible that in time others will also achieve a perfect game. However, history will honor the fastest time as the best performance."

    https://www.mameworld.info/net/pacma...ory/p11_01.htm
    maybe my knowledge of TG lore isnt what it should be, but did this part seem odd
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    walter was there when billy got the perfect pacman? i thought i heard billy called walter on the phone and walter wasnt there. am i remembering wrong?
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  6. 02-12-2020, 04:00 AM
    Uh oh, I opened the Pac-Man can of worms again... :)

    The lore has been that Day was off-site and received the phone call from Mitchell, but numerous discrepancies have arisen over the years, most recently in the dispute. I'm going to assume for now that the "credited photo" is an errant statement. There were versions where Walter didn't know that Mitchell was going for the perfect score, versions where Walter did know, the historical version where Mitchell went there in secret breaking the gentlemen's agreement, the latest telling in the evidence package that it was an advertised event all along, etc, etc. David Race provided some important feedback in that regard in the dispute thread. I think that one person that has escaped more accountability is Walter Day - he was the one that apparently proposed and had Fothergill and Mitchell agree to a "Perfect Pac-Man" summit the following year at the next Funspot tournament to continue the head-to-head competition for the perfect score, so his official reneging on that agreement is noteworthy.
    Last edited by The Evener; 02-12-2020 at 04:08 AM.
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  7. 02-12-2020, 09:14 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener View Post
    the historical version where Mitchell went there in secret breaking the gentlemen's agreement, the latest telling in the evidence package that it was an advertised event all along, etc, etc. David Race provided some important feedback in that regard in the dispute thread. I think that one person that has escaped more accountability is Walter Day - he was the one that apparently proposed and had Fothergill and Mitchell agree to a "Perfect Pac-Man" summit the following year at the next Funspot tournament to continue the head-to-head competition for the perfect score, so his official reneging on that agreement is noteworthy


    RTM REPLY - funny thing...Billy often said that his "arrogance" caused him to announce that he would be pulling off this score before his game started (and it was actually multiple attempts until the final performance) BUT what I never heard was how, if this was "advertised", did his buddy Rick Fothergill NOT hear of it ? Seems like it was done covertly so as not to tip off one or more specific individuals. I can't speak for whether Chris Ayra or, for that matter, Neil Chapman, were also kept out of the loop, but anecdotal evidence seems to support that at minimum Fothergill was unaware.

    The whole "gentlemen's agreement" is well documented in terms of anecdotal responses within the TG forum over the years, and I believe that it is something that Billy...and to a certain extent Walter...tries very hard to distance themselves from. It's kind of like the dirty little secret behind the achievement.

    As I understand it from Billy himself years back, after the ACAM 1999 event there was a 4-way discussion involving Billy, Chris, Rick and Walter, whereby none of them would play the game for I think an entire year, and then they would all come back to try at the same time and see who pulled it off first,

    Prior to the ACAM 1999 event discussions took place which resulted in TG allowing 5+1 settings which Fothergill played at during that first ACAM event...prior to that point only 3+1 settings had been tracked by TG. I fm not 100% sure of this but there was some kind or "coronation" in early 1999 that took place...possibly at ACAM...during which Billy, Chris and at the time Neil Chapman hammered out the 5+1 settings with Walter, convincing him to allow for it as someone down the line could trounce a 3,333,180 merely by playing with 2 extra lives, and Walter agreed though to this day I think it was a very bad decision and was solely made to placate the ego of one person even though they were speaking on behalf of others.
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