More Shenanigans with Respect to DK, Billy and Possibly Walter as Well...these from 1983 !!

  1. 07-07-2020, 05:47 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by sprinter461 View Post
    You should have worked for TG at the time. THey had nobody that was capable of doing that. Regardless of what any picture suggests. I tried to get Mark Hoff on here to discuss, he has absolutely zero interest.
    Well, I was 13 so they probably wouldn't trust me with the numbers. :)

    As for Mark, it is sad that he does not come here anymore. We all have our priorities in life though and this place was a little drama filled before. We are all trying hard to change that.
  2. 07-07-2020, 05:54 AM
    So I am chatting with Mark via text right now. He's agreeing with what I said, but it doesn't matter. I was going to share the screenshots, and I asked his permission. It was not granted.

    So I'll drop it. It is what you want to believe it to be.
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  3. 07-07-2020, 06:00 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by datagod View Post
    Well, I was 13 so they probably wouldn't trust me with the numbers. :)

    As for Mark, it is sad that he does not come here anymore. We all have our priorities in life though and this place was a little drama filled before. We are all trying hard to change that.
    I e-mailed him the link to this thread. Not sure if he will choose to partipate or not.

    I'm sure anything he felt worth sharing would be more credibile coming from anyway, so the people that feel I have a personal agenda about anyone, or anything, could just drop me out of the equation.
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  4. 07-07-2020, 06:08 AM
    I'll take your word for it. Like I said early "if memory serves me". I guess it did not. I thought for sure Mark told me about a card entry system.

    Thanks for taking the time to clarify things Tim. You are always welcome here.
  5. 07-07-2020, 06:13 AM
    I am not going to read pages and pages of content.
    Tim messaged me and asked a very specific question.
    Here is the context of his inquiry.

    After the Life photo timeframe, Scott Garrett, myself, Lyle Holman, with assistance from Bob Bradfield who worked at Radio Shack and had a military tech background were involved in making a color computer array with coax connections.
    It was specifically for the TV event to store all scores then display top scores on tv screens.
    I did the graphics. Lyle did the heavy work on the database programming. Bob built the multicomputer array. I did the graphics. Scott floated around on the project.
    You can see this network in the tv footage in chasing ghosts or in a magazine. we were interviewed in Maud's pizza across from the theater in a booth if you question if this really happened, I can tell you we had sodas, no pizza.
    http://www.robotron2084guidebook.com...sJul83-p32.jpg
    http://www.robotron2084guidebook.com...sJul83-p33.jpg

    an italian video game magazine covered this and posted every single score. I have linked that in past but don't know the link or name of mag currently.....and basically I don't care to look it up (if you guys are looking for bias' in which to polarize and argue relentlessly.....)

    Now the scoreboard that was a different and separate animal.
    Walter had a model 3 in backroom and a radio shack dot matrix printer.
    the scoreboard got typed into an index card program on that computer, mostly by Lyle and myself as I recall. Walter is/was a one finger hunt and peck typer so I don't recall him typing when I was at arcade or working.
    scores that were called in were kept in notebook/slips of paper and piled up under front counter. when the pile got large, we would take it into backroom and type it up.
    There was a friend of Walter's who owned an arcade in san jose (Mike Klug's home arcade)....he kept a lot of documentation that walter sent him. He has that content posted on his paradise website. That's the only surviving scoreboard content I am aware of.

    If you guys want more fodder....why don't you google robert bradfield. That'll distract you for awhile.

    good luck.
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  6. 07-07-2020, 06:47 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by 1500points View Post
    Now the scoreboard that was a different and separate animal.
    Walter had a model 3 in backroom and a radio shack dot matrix printer.
    the scoreboard got typed into an index card program on that computer, mostly by Lyle and myself as I recall. Walter is/was a one finger hunt and peck typer so I don't recall him typing when I was at arcade or working.
    scores that were called in were kept in notebook/slips of paper and piled up under front counter. when the pile got large, we would take it into backroom and type it up.

    good luck.
    Thanks Mark!! Good to see you here in the forums again. I was sure you told me about the index card program. Was it custom programmed or was it purchased software? I am just curious. Nothing to do with TG.
    Your friend, datagod
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  7. 07-07-2020, 06:52 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by 1500points View Post
    I am not going to read pages and pages of content.
    Tim messaged me and asked a very specific question.
    Here is the context of his inquiry.

    After the Life photo timeframe, Scott Garrett, myself, Lyle Holman, with assistance from Bob Bradfield who worked at Radio Shack and had a military tech background were involved in making a color computer array with coax connections.
    It was specifically for the TV event to store all scores then display top scores on tv screens.
    I did the graphics. Lyle did the heavy work on the database programming. Bob built the multicomputer array. I did the graphics. Scott floated around on the project.
    You can see this network in the tv footage in chasing ghosts or in a magazine. we were interviewed in Maud's pizza across from the theater in a booth if you question if this really happened, I can tell you we had sodas, no pizza.
    http://www.robotron2084guidebook.com...sJul83-p32.jpg
    http://www.robotron2084guidebook.com...sJul83-p33.jpg

    an italian video game magazine covered this and posted every single score. I have linked that in past but don't know the link or name of mag currently.....and basically I don't care to look it up (if you guys are looking for bias' in which to polarize and argue relentlessly.....)

    Now the scoreboard that was a different and separate animal.
    Walter had a model 3 in backroom and a radio shack dot matrix printer.
    the scoreboard got typed into an index card program on that computer, mostly by Lyle and myself as I recall. Walter is/was a one finger hunt and peck typer so I don't recall him typing when I was at arcade or working.
    scores that were called in were kept in notebook/slips of paper and piled up under front counter. when the pile got large, we would take it into backroom and type it up.
    There was a friend of Walter's who owned an arcade in san jose (Mike Klug's home arcade)....he kept a lot of documentation that walter sent him. He has that content posted on his paradise website. That's the only surviving scoreboard content I am aware of.

    If you guys want more fodder....why don't you google robert bradfield. That'll distract you for awhile.

    good luck.
    Well that clears it up a bit on my part as well.

    I perhaps misread or misunderstood, I only knew of Mark's involvement using his TRS-80 and the wall of TVs he referenced. I knew of his involvement and work to make that back plexi glass scoreboard look ultra modern and high tech. It was really cool at that point in time.

    I knew of the spiral notebook. As a local player, when you wanted to look up a score, they (whoever was working the counter at the arcade at that time) grabbed the spiral notebook out from under the counter. I know of the scraps of paper piling up. This notebook and the scraps of paper were more or less directly under the phone. A call would come in, the score would get written down on one fo the small pieces of paper, then later they would update the "scoreboard". This is what I was referencing.

    What i was 100% totally unaware of was a "Model 3" (I have no idea what that even is at the moment) in the backroom, and any sort of index program/database. Reading Mark's comment, this is 100% new information to me right now, today.

    So I'm glad he cleared that up. My mistake. I'm sorry if I misled or misrepresented something. Was NOT my intention. That's why I contacted Mark.
    Buy the Ticket... Take the Ride...


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  8. 07-07-2020, 12:25 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by sprinter461 View Post
    What i was 100% totally unaware of was a "Model 3" (I have no idea what that even is at the moment) in the backroom, and any sort of index program/database.

    The TRS-80 Model III was one of the "trinity" of early 1980s personal computers, with other two being the Apple ][ and Commodore CBM. Unlike the others, the TRS-80 had a real disk operating system, so Walter would have done pretty well to have selected it as the prototype for an electronic scores database.

    On an incidental note, it had some design similarities to the digital computer inside of a Donkey Kong cabinet, but was arguably underpowered as the arcade PCB has a second Z80 processor just to handle sound. Also, the the video on the TRS-80 left a lot to be desired when it came to playing games.

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    TRS-80 Flight Simulator

    Thanks for helping to dig out some those details.
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  9. 07-10-2020, 04:52 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by datagod View Post
    Thanks Mark!! Good to see you here in the forums again. I was sure you told me about the index card program. Was it custom programmed or was it purchased software? I am just curious. Nothing to do with TG.

    I'm curious about this as well. Here's what Radio Shack had as standard offerings in the days (1982) before spreadsheets swallowed entry-level database applications. Up to 2400 records!!

    Name:  TRS-80 Model III Data Base Management.png
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    Last edited by grinder2112; 07-11-2020 at 03:14 AM.
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  10. 07-29-2020, 10:47 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener View Post
    In an exchange with ersatz_cats, I learned about an OriginalPSP interview with Steve Sanders that was posted on patrickscottanderson.com, which was originally published on examiner.com:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20110820...nders-part-one

    This passage caught my eye and immediately reminded me of our discussion here about Batson's score:

    "Q: It has been documented that upon losing your listed Donkey Kong records that you began to fabricate new scores. Looking back, what was going through your mind on that at the time and how do you feel about it today?

    A: I will never live down the shame and embarrassment I brought upon myself when I began to lie about my high scores. Oh my. Walter had gotten back in touch with me. He was creating an official Twin Galaxies poster to be sent to arcades all across the country. He was going to publish world records, the players names, and make us all famous. However, he told me, someone had beaten my Donkey Kong score. By a lot. It was now early May and my Kong score were up around 400K or so. But someone from North Carolina had reported a score well over 900K. (Footnote: 900K is chump change by 21st century standards. But in 1983, six months after the Life magazine photo, nobody, but nobody believed the 900K score was real. We still don't. He never came to any contest to play live. Ever.)

    The poster was published, and my name wasn't on it."

    Steve goes on to talk about this ever-increasing scores through the summer.

    There are a couple of interesting things here.

    First and foremost, Steve's conversation with Walter about a 900K+ score from a player in North Carolina aligns with Leo Daniel's claim that TG accepted a submission from Terry Batson at 912,000 points. Notwithstanding some skepticism that hangs over some scores from the 1980s, Terry's TG-recognized score is an important milestone in classic arcade gaming competition. However, the window of Terry's reign was *extremely* short due to Steve's ever-increasing scores.[snip]
    Sorry for quoting myself, but an update on Terry Batson's lost DK score as well as a historical correction to Steve's recollection about the first TG poster.

    A refresher: OriginalPSP interviewed Leo Daniels back in 2010. Towards the end of the interview, Daniels references Terry Batson's DK submission that was subsequently lost due to the actions of Steve Sanders:

    "My highest score on DK was 398,000 and I never could get over 400,000. When a guy names Terry Batson beat my score in my own arcade, I turned in his score of 912,000. At that time we didn't know about the kill screen and was baffled when he suddenly died, we both thought the machine had malfunctioned."

    https://web.archive.org/web/20160713...or-leo-daniels

    In August 1982, Walter Day planned to create the first Twin Galaxies International Scoreboard poster featuring the high scores from a range of arcade games. In this 1983 interview, Sanders confirmed that his TG-recognized DK record was surpassed by a player from Light Years arcade at Wrightsville Beach, NC who scored 912,000 -- the same figure cited by Leo Daniels almost 20 years later, who we know now was Terry Batson. In this interview, Steve confirmed that he lied about his 1.4 million score in order to get his name featured on that poster instead of the player with 912,000 (Batson), in contrast to his 2010 interview where he claimed that he didn't get on the poster at all.

    http://www.ataricompendium.com/archi...s_decjan84.pdf

    December 1983/January 1984 issue of Computer Games, "These Guns For Hire!"

    "That was the high score until someone at Light Years hit 912,000. That's virtually impossible but Walter [Day] stood by that score. Well, I tried and tried to beat it, but I couldn't. Then I heard that Walter was going to print up a poster with all the names of the record holders and their scores on it. That's when I lied about my score. It was just to get on the poster."

    Thus, when Sanders pushed the false narrative that he scored 1.4 million, he denied Batson his chance to be part of video gaming history beginning with the TGIS high score poster along with subsequent exposure in magazines and newspapers featuring TG scores through 1982. He also denied Batson's official place in the history of DK competition and the significant milestone his score would have represented.

    If anyone knows where Batson might be reached, please drop me a PM.
    Last edited by The Evener; 07-29-2020 at 05:38 PM.
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