Atari 2600 / VCS - Kangaroo - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B - 432,600 - Ulisses Lima

Is this Performance Claim Valid?

    This poll is closed
This poll is closed
  1. 04-05-2020, 12:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by TRB_MetroidTeam View Post
    I yet need to watch the complete video of Ulisses.
    I'd like to know if any anomaly was observed in his gameplay, because the code was asked, and I can't find nothing different than the oficial game, so far.
    I'm not sure what the relevance of the existence of anomalies in game play would be here. I literally just explained that ROMs can be modified in a way not detectable solely by viewing the game play. And we have no idea if it's the official game or not, which is the point. It's a third-party multicart that was manufactured by a shady individual with ties to an illegal IP-stealing company with a sordid history of hacking ROMs and releasing them to the public. Moreover, I can bet that Ulisses did not contact the manufacturer and request the MD5 of the Kangaroo data on his specific 480-in-1 cart. In the off-chance he did, I would be that they didn't answer.

    Again, if one wants to play Atari 2600 titles casually (or titles on any other platform for that matter), then these XXX-in-1 carts are great. Conversely, if one feels so strongly about getting recognition in a competitive environment by a community whose entire existence and purpose is competition, then one will have to do better than use something other than *VERIFIABLE* original hardware/software. If one cares less about recognition, then be satisfied with a reject.
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  2. 04-05-2020, 12:50 PM
    I am no longer abstaining and will be VOTING NO. I have found no example of any Atari 2600 submission that has been accepted on TwinGalaxies where the score was performed on a third-party XXX-in-1 cart. I'm not suggesting one does not exist ... just acknowledging that from the thousands of submissions I have seen, no such example was observed. My only surprise is that there are actually arguments (excuses?) in favor of accepting this, and I can't help but to speculate on motivation for doing so.

    Ulisses is good enough at this game to get a similar if not better score using legit hardware/software. I have a great idea: How about we all set this new member and others down the right path, and not encourage them to use something other than original hardware? Wouldn't that be swell? I think so. This isn't AtariAge where literally anything goes.
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  3. 04-05-2020, 01:03 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by TRB_MetroidTeam View Post
    because the code was asked.
    The request for the code was a hollow one, because the code *cannot* be extracted from the multicart in question unless a ROM dumper were involved, which I highly doubt this new member has one (if he has a ROM dumper, then that would necessarily mean that he has original cartridges to dump and wouldn't need any 480-in-1 cart.)

    I made the request knowing full well it could never be fulfilled to make a point.
  4. 04-05-2020, 01:17 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett Holland View Post
    I have found no example of any Atari 2600 submission that has been accepted on TwinGalaxies where the score was performed on a third-party XXX-in-1 cart.
    Just to add further clarification, the existence of an existing accepted Atari 2600 submission where a XXX-in-1 cart was used is irrelevant. However, if anyone finds one, please feel free to post it here so I can quickly begin the dispute process on it.
  5. 04-05-2020, 02:43 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett Holland View Post
    I'm not sure what the relevance of the existence of anomalies in game play would be here.

    Thank you for answering, and thanks for confirming that you can't find anomalies in Ulisses performance, so far.


    If I find, I'll let people know. And I hope everyone will do the same, including Ulisses.
    TRB_MetroidTeam
    Metroid Team, from Brazil
  6. 04-05-2020, 02:47 PM
    Is this Performance Claim Valid?
    Yes. Accepted.
    TRB_MetroidTeam
    Metroid Team, from Brazil
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  7. 04-05-2020, 02:51 PM
    garrett, mind you i'm not arguing in favor of an accept, just questioning your logic

    in your berzerk example i think you would find the proof by analyzing pauses and then noticing the reset bug never happens

    let me ask you this, if someone hacked a rom to change the third level, but they lost all lives before completing the unedited first level would that be an issue?

    i strongly suspect people would be ok with a modification that doesnt affect gameplay in anyway. i'm not saying thats ok i just think its important to ask how we feel in general to make sure all are treated the same
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
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  8. 04-05-2020, 03:32 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by TRB_MetroidTeam View Post
    Thank you for answering, and thanks for confirming that you can't find anomalies.
    Fascinating comments. I did not answer your question, and I made no such confirmation. This is quite a remarkable demonstration of seeing what you want to see and ignoring everything else.

    Indeed, I have zero clue whether there are anomalies, because I stopped watching the footage the moment I saw that hack cartridge manufactured by that unindicted, IP-stealing criminal who has a sordid history of hacking ROMs. Why would I bother when an XXX-in-1 third party manufactured cartridge has never been acceptable? LoL!

    I digress ... if he were to do what *everyone else is expected to do* and use a generally acceptable medium to play Atari 2600 titles (i.e. SD cart), then anomalies *AT THAT POINT* can potentially be explained by simply having the submitter post the MD5 code.

    Seriously, Valter, what about this are you not getting?
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  9. 04-05-2020, 03:32 PM
    I watched the entire video of the record starting and did not notice any irregularities, so my vote is yes !!!!!!
    And congratulations on the Ulisses score.
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  10. 04-05-2020, 03:41 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    ... just questioning your logic

    in your berzerk example i think you would find the proof by analyzing pauses and then noticing the reset bug never happens
    That would be an inaccurate assessment. There are two counters in Berzerk that determine when the forced attract mode is executed. The first counter is a 1-byte frame counter. The second counter is a 1-byte attract-mode countdown counter. If there is no active controller input when the frame counter hits FF, then the countdown counter increments by one. When the countdown timer hits FF+1 (256), the system forces attract mode and terminates game play. The thing is there isn't a soul on this planet that could accurately determine what the frame counter's value is at any given point based on someone's uploaded video on TwinGalaxies. Video compression alone (much less other factors) simply won't allow it, and even a variance fraction of the time it takes for a frame to process (less than .03 seconds) can throw that value off by 1, and even then, someone reviewing gameplay wouldn't even get *close* to guessing, even if they did a frame-by-frame analysis.
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