A Request For Rule Amendment

  1. A Request For Rule Amendment

    04-08-2020, 12:58 PM
    Dear TG staff and members
    This
    request is to amend the rules for "Sky Diver" on MAME.

    Currently the rules state:
    ROMSet: SkyDiver
    Lives: 3
    Difficulty: Easy
    Extended Play: Yes [4,000 points]

    BUT when the difficulty level is set to "easy",the extended play is at 3000 points (that's written in the attract mode screen) and ONLY when I change the difficulty level to "hard" then the attract mode screen say that the extended play is for 4000 points.
    Btw when I reach the extended play's points mark NOTHING HAPPENS: no extra life awarded and no extra time given, no nothing! perhaps this feature is only available in the original Arcade game..
    Back to the problem:
    I want to submit a game at this title but there's no way to follow the rules.
    I can only suggest that since the "extended play" feature is not really relevant and does not do anything at all ,the rules should disregard it completely and allow submissions based only on the difficulty level.
    I have submitted a test-game that demonstrates this problem:
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...-doron-gronski

    (the 2nd video will show you how the extended play points get changed when the difficulty level gets changed)

    I suggest that the rules should be:
    ROMSet: SkyDiver
    Lives: 3
    Difficulty: Easy
    Extended Play: player's choice (since it doesn't affect the game)


    So please TG staff-amend the rules please!

    Cheers!

    Thanks ivanstorm1973 thanked this post
    Likes ivanstorm1973 liked this post
  2. 04-08-2020, 07:21 PM
    Hi Doron:

    Here are the arcade rules...

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    And now here are the MAME rules (at present)...

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    Both sets of rules appear to want the player to play at "Easy" as well as to be awarded a time extension at the 4K mark...so if the actual MAME play does not react as anticipated then I agree that TG should change the MAME rules accordingly.
    Thanks Doron, ivanstorm1973 thanked this post
  3. 04-09-2020, 01:27 AM
    Only a few minutes ago I finally got to understand what the "Extended play" means !!
    When you reach the extended play points mark (3000 points on Easy difficulty or 4000 points on Hard difficulty) it appears that nothing happens but it does! - the game gives you 1 free credit to play a new game starting from zero points of course! So even If you're not a great player but you can reach 4000 points,you'll get 2 games for the price of one (in the Arcades it means 2 games for 1 token) and by the way this will not repeat itself in the 2nd game -you cannot play forever since you get this "extended play" only once.

    So in any case the rules must be changed since it does not affect the game at all and you can't accumulate points from the 2 games.
    Cheers!
    Last edited by Doron; 05-14-2020 at 11:15 PM.
    Thanks ivanstorm1973 thanked this post
  4. 04-09-2020, 08:26 AM
    Good research, Doron !!

    TG admin would have to change the MAME results, but the few MAME records were contested at 3-life settings. I won't comment further as there are some who feel very strongly about situations like this...they can hash it out.
    Thanks Doron thanked this post
    Likes ivanstorm1973 liked this post
  5. 04-16-2020, 10:22 AM
    I would really appreciate any kind of response from the TG staff..
    Cheers!
  6. 05-14-2020, 01:33 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Doron View Post
    I would really appreciate any kind of response from the TG staff..
    Cheers!
    Hello Doron,

    I am finding this thread after your post in the scoreboard error thread. For future reference, if you ever want to bring attention to any of your post by TG staff please consider tagging us in case we don't notice it on our own.

    I am considering making this change, however I am very wary of making changes to rules on established scoreboards.

    I noticed that you had mentioned that the line you wish to be altered does not effect the gameplay at all. If someone else who is knowledgeable about this game can vouch for this change I will honor it. Looking at the scoreboard, I see @RTM has a past record on it as well @ivanstorm1973 . I know they are active member, maybe they could chime in. (I saw @RTM 's previous reply)
  7. 05-14-2020, 11:41 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by SincerelyFranny View Post

    I am considering making this change, however I am very wary of making changes to rules on established scoreboards.

    I noticed that you had mentioned that the line you wish to be altered does not effect the gameplay at all
    @SincerelyFranny,@RTM, @ivanstorm1973 @redelf

    Yes,the extended play doesn't affect the game at all! - It doesn't give an extra life or time - what it does give you is an extra credit,so when you finish the game after you lost all your lives,you press START and you start to play another game starting from zero points (there's no accumulation of points from the first game)

    Recap:
    There's no legal way to submit games to this track:
    MAME - Sky Diver - Easy difficulty
    The rules demand "Easy difficulty and extended play at 4000 pts"
    BUT the easy difficulty is paired ONLY with the 3000 points !
    The extended play at 4000 pts is paired ONLY with the Hard difficulty.
    A simple fix for this would be to just replace the 4000 with the 3000 pts

    Thank you!







    Last edited by Doron; 05-14-2020 at 11:51 PM.
  8. 05-15-2020, 12:22 AM
    @SincerelyFranny,@RTM @ivanstorm1973 @redelf

    Page 9 from the Sky Diver Manual
    https://www.arcade-museum.com/manual...S/SkyDiver.pdf

    As you can see: Extended play with easy difficulty in 3 misses (meaning 3 lives) is at 3000 points

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    Last edited by Doron; 05-15-2020 at 11:10 AM.
  9. 05-15-2020, 08:51 AM
    Most of the black and white games from Atari don't really have a difficulty setting that affects game play. They did this through points needed to obtain a bonus or an extra life. Later when the cost of processing and memory started to come down and their programmers got better is when difficulty in game play started to happen.

    I'm all for changing the rules to just exclude anything about the bonus, either say players choice or no affect.
    Thanks Doron thanked this post
  10. 05-24-2020, 09:51 PM
    @SincerelyFranny,@RTM, @ivanstorm1973 @redelf

    Dear Franny!


    I have presented you with lots of hard evidence,facts and information that prove my case:


    1 I've provided this video which I made that shows that the easy difficulty can only be paired with the 3000 points
    extended play.
    https://view.vzaar.com/21415708/player?autoplay=true


    2 I've provided a document: The ORIGINAL cabinet manual that also shows in page 9 that the easy difficulty,3 misses (meaning 3 lives) goes only with 3000 pts!
    https://www.arcade-museum.com/manual...S/SkyDiver.pdf
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    3 I've also provided recommendations from gaming legends and veterans Robert Mruczek and John McAllister that say that indeed the rules need to be amended.


    4 Lastly, just to be on the safe side,I also ran this game on an old version of MAME (106-the same version that was used by most players on this track) and checked if the same occurrence will also happen here - it did!


    If you should decide in my favor:
    A simple fix would be to replace "4000" with "3000" .
    I really appreciate your help and I'm sorry to trouble you.
    Cheers!
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