M.A.M.E. Bandido record attempt, have questions first

  1. M.A.M.E. Bandido record attempt, have questions first

    05-20-2020, 05:57 PM
    If you're familiar with Exidy's 1980 game "Bandido", you know that your score doubles after completing the 3rd board, the 8th board, and then every 8th board after that. Your score display maxes out at six digits, but those six digits will always be the correct last six digits of your score. For example, if my score is 644,350 as I complete an 8th board, it will double to 1,288,700 but the game will display 288,700.

    Obviously this is not really a big deal as it only takes a pen and a piece of paper to keep track of the correct score. So here's my question: I've been practicing and will soon submit a score that will either be in the hundreds of millions, or in the billions. It will be recorded via INP on WolfMAME and will be a completely legit score, but the judges will have to keep track of how many millions/billions it currently is after the score doubles after every 8th board. There is a counter on the screen to show the board number (1 thru 8), and there's a little cut-scene that plays as the score is doubled, so it's pretty obvious when that occurs. A little math and a pen and paper are all that's needed.

    Is this something that the judges at TG are able/willing to do, or do I need to think about approaching my Bandido WR attempt in some other way? Is there anyone in particular at TG that I should ask about this? Thanks!
  2. 10-08-2020, 12:48 PM
    Judges, any answer to this? I'd really like to make and submit this score.
  3. 10-08-2020, 01:07 PM
    There are plenty of games here that I have seen where the score rolls over back to zero and continues on. The approved score is the sum of the final displayed score + all the roll over amounts. I don't see how this would be much different. I say go for it. Just make sure to note in your submission at what time intervals the score doubles and what those values are at that time.
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  4. 10-08-2020, 01:22 PM
    a pete peve of mine is garfield works this way and frankly i dont think it should, so before a ruling is made please here me out so we can get this right

    as sean stated, its typically your number of rollovers added to the final score. well, when a score doubles, is the computer doubling your rollovers or just the displayed score? i'd argue its just doubling what it knows about, it cant double the rollovers which it doesnt track. so as far as i'm concerned each doubling can only roll you over one more time as opposed to doubling the roll overs as well

    now yes i understand the counter argument would be that the intention was clearly to double, but honestly the intention was honestly that you'd never get to the point of rolling, so we're not in intentional territory anymore

    also doing it as a i suggest would be easier to keep track of. look at garfield for the atari 2600 and notice how ridiculous things get when you keep track of rollovers and double them. you can make any rule set you like, but my personal opinion is garfield is out of control and id hate to see another game get out of control
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  5. 10-08-2020, 01:24 PM
    also not sure how loosey you're using the term "judges" but we technically never had judges (refs) but dont even have refs anymore. its now community oriented where the community itself comes together to judge/verify everything. so none of us are really have full authority we can only share our opinions, and precedents being what they are, once you submit such an attempt, whichever opinion wins the most votes that first time will likely stay the rule going forward.
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  6. 10-08-2020, 04:21 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jibmums View Post
    If you're familiar with Exidy's 1980 game "Bandido", you know that your score doubles after completing the 3rd board, the 8th board, and then every 8th board after that. Your score display maxes out at six digits, but those six digits will always be the correct last six digits of your score. For example, if my score is 644,350 as I complete an 8th board, it will double to 1,288,700 but the game will display 288,700.

    Obviously this is not really a big deal as it only takes a pen and a piece of paper to keep track of the correct score. So here's my question: I've been practicing and will soon submit a score that will either be in the hundreds of millions, or in the billions. It will be recorded via INP on WolfMAME and will be a completely legit score, but the judges will have to keep track of how many millions/billions it currently is after the score doubles after every 8th board. There is a counter on the screen to show the board number (1 thru 8), and there's a little cut-scene that plays as the score is doubled, so it's pretty obvious when that occurs. A little math and a pen and paper are all that's needed.

    Is this something that the judges at TG are able/willing to do, or do I need to think about approaching my Bandido WR attempt in some other way? Is there anyone in particular at TG that I should ask about this? Thanks!
    Other concerns mentioned aside, I can assure you that there are many adjudicators who will absolutely keep track of every rollover, and vote accordingly. Here's the kick: In order for you to even submit a performance, you yourself will first need to know the exact resulting score. There isn't any mechanism at TG to have others analyze your performance, and then inform you what your score is. Adjudicators are effectively "verifiers" (confirming previously discovered facts) rather than "analysts" (discovering new facts), although there are times when adjudicators discover something within the submitter's footage that the submitter may or may not have figured out, but that is not to be expected.
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  7. 10-08-2020, 08:29 PM
    Just referring to "judges" in the broadest sense. Refs, adjudicators, verifiers, really whoever determines whether a score is legit or not is all I meant.

    As far as the score rolling over, in Bandido it is literally supposed to double after 3rd / 8th / every 8th board, no matter how many digits are displayed; it literally says "BONUS!!! SCORE X 2" on screen, so there's no question about that. I've been keeping very accurate, handwritten accounts of what my entire score is at each time of doubling as I practice (currently up to a high of 76 billion), so there should (hopefully) be no discrepancies when submitted. But then, this is exactly why I'd like to know how this will be determined before I play for hours, take notes of each score doubling, and then have that disqualified because a judge doesn't agree with the definition of "doubling".

    Another thought on doubling here: let's say my score, for example, is 1,002,000. Bandido doesn't display the millions digits, only up to the hundred thousands, so the displayed score would be 002,000. I then finish an 8th board, and get the BONUS!!! SCORE x 2 notice. My score *should* double to 2,004,000 even though the 2 million digit isn't displayed. This should be true of any score over a million, no matter how high. By the method mentioned by Snowflake above, my score would only be 1,004,000 since I haven't actually rolled the score over 999,000 and only the displayed 002,000 doubles. To me this is clearly not what the designer had in mind.

    As far as logging the times of each doubling as someone suggested, how does one do that when creating a WolfMAME INP file? It's not like it's a video where the time can be displayed as it's played back. Should I be literally using a stopwatch as I play/record?
    Last edited by jibmums; 10-08-2020 at 08:52 PM.
  8. 10-08-2020, 09:18 PM
    although it doesnt make much sense with mame, twin galaxies now has across the board rule requiring video. so for mame, its kinda silly but this means in addition to the inp you also submit video of the game -- where the video can simply be you recording the inp playback. timestamps for that should work.

    you make a fine point on intent, and garfield is done that way, so its certainly an argument i expect you to win. the garfield high score is currently 1,909,896,121,651,051,877,238,357,850 this clearly gets out of control and so its always bothered me, but i guess if the alternative is worse, ok. hopefully your game is hard enough to keep scores a little more contained.
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  9. 10-09-2020, 04:29 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    although it doesnt make much sense with mame, twin galaxies now has across the board rule requiring video. so for mame, its kinda silly but this means in addition to the inp you also submit video of the game -- where the video can simply be you recording the inp playback. timestamps for that should work.
    Wow, things have certainly changed since I last submitted ten or so years ago. I figured just a WolfMAME INP would still suffice, since it's impossible to change the game presets. Does the video need to be shot with a camera, or will a screen capture video be satisfactory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    you make a fine point on intent, and garfield is done that way, so its certainly an argument i expect you to win. the garfield high score is currently 1,909,896,121,651,051,877,238,357,850 this clearly gets out of control and so its always bothered me, but i guess if the alternative is worse, ok. hopefully your game is hard enough to keep scores a little more contained.
    Almost two octillion.....yeah, that seems a bit out of hand. Does the score double literally after every board?
  10. 03-11-2021, 03:58 PM
    I've been practicing at Bandido, and my current HS is 218K, which took approximately 34 minutes to get to. Assuming a steady 7 minutes for each 8 boards, and an average of 6250 points picked up across each 8, my math works out to about 2:45:00 game time to get to 60B, and at 3:00:00, it would be at 241.5B. Would love to see someone put up those kind of numbers!
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