NES / FAMICOM / DISK - Mickey Mousecapade - NTSC - Points - 791,650 - Steven Grant Lynn

Is this Performance Claim Valid?

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  1. NES / FAMICOM / DISK - Mickey Mousecapade - NTSC - Points - 791,650 - Steven Grant Lynn

    06-01-2020, 08:26 PM
    vzaar-player


    NTSC - Points
    Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=129180
    Rank

    Rules
    Factory Default
    Special Rules: You may NOT use any codes or your run will be disqualified.
    Submission Message
    This is yet another game with very vague rules. The only way to gain points is to kill enemies. There is no clock in this game which means you can essentially enter and leave a room multiple times and just kill enemies over and over again. It is my personable belief that the score of 456,100 that is currently on the board was obtained in this way in a sort of marathon style. I will post a response with details about my methods and how the game works.


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  2. 06-01-2020, 11:01 PM
    The only way to score near or over the current record of 456,100 is to kill duplicate enemies. In other words "leeching" points to some degree. With no real set rules about leeching in this particular game I have opted to use my extra lives to kill the Pete boss in the last stage. This is the only boss that will reappear after you kill him in a room and you get a huge amount of points for killing him.

    The game does max out at 10 points shy of 10 million or 9,999,990. If limiting room leeching is applied there would be a conceivable perfect score for this game. Since there is a max out that seems a bit moot as you could just not limit the leeching at all and allow a the perfect score to be a max out. I uploaded this smaller score to get everyone's thoughts and ideas.

    Applying a 5 life rule to the game does nothing as you can simply hit the max easily on one life.

    Since the game has a max out, applying a marathon setting doesn't make sense either.

    I personally think just allowing leeching is the only logical thing to do and if someone wants to take the time to max out the score they can. I would love to hear everyone's thoughts.
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  3. 06-01-2020, 11:21 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by EightBitSteve View Post
    This is yet another game with very vague rules. The only way to gain points is to kill enemies. There is no clock in this game which means you can essentially enter and leave a room multiple times and just kill enemies over and over again. It is my personable belief that the score of 456,100 that is currently on the board was obtained in this way in a sort of marathon style.
    According to the Official Book of TG Guidelines this is leeching.
  4. 06-01-2020, 11:24 PM
    I appreciate the post. I am fully aware of that definition. It is however applied in all kinds of different ways and is taken on a case by case basis. I have posted my thoughts about how it should be applied in this particular case and I would love to hear your thoughts.
  5. 06-02-2020, 12:21 AM
    Based on what I've seen...

    Enemies that respawn and give a lot of points in games without a timer should not be allowed to be exploited. There are some games where there is a maze and you need to gather items in a particular order, and you have to do some backtracking to get through the maze, where killing respawned enemies is allowed if not abused, but other than that it should not be allowed. I estimate that your score would have been around 310k without the leaching. Without seeing the current score, it would be difficult to see how they achieved it. If a prior judge made an error in judgement and allowed a tactic that they should not have allowed (and would not be allowed today), and there is no video evidence of such banned tactic, us players today are just kind of out of luck. There are a few other scores like this that I've seen, and when I come across one I just move on, because it's an unbeatable score and there's not really anything that can be done about it.

    IMO, if you're really sure the current record was accomplished though leaching, the best option may be to attempt to take down the current record, and then submit a legitimate score without leaching (rather than to out leach a leacher). Based on the current trends at TG this may be very possible right now.
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  6. 06-02-2020, 12:24 AM
    I remember this game yes, it is a really easy fun game with places to get many points.
    To answer your question yes, it would be leeching their is no progress going forward, and the respawning of enemies in many areas & you can get enless amount of points

    The Castle from 12:05 on the video score at 146,650 to 33:03 score 635,550
    635,550
    146,650
    488,900 points gained It has been quite a few years since I played this game, what would the score be just completing the game normally. Then the 2nd place score is 456,100.

    Quote Originally Posted by EightBitSteve View Post
    I appreciate the post. I am fully aware of that definition. It is however applied in all kinds of different ways and is taken on a case by case basis. I have posted my thoughts about how it should be applied in this particular case and I would love to hear your thoughts.
  7. 06-02-2020, 12:37 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Bogart View Post
    when I come across one I just move on, because it's an unbeatable score and there's not really anything that can be done about it.
    You may dispute the record achieved in that way. Certain old scores in some games are obviously unrealistic. Even without seeing a video, it's clear that they are impossible to achieve without leeching. All the "old crap" should be removed from the database, in my opinion.
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  8. 06-02-2020, 12:51 AM
    It is routine for scores to be disputed and removed if strong enough evidence is presented that demonstrates the current record could not have been achieved without leeching techniques. That may be the route to go. If anyone has such evidence and their CR is below the 4,000 threshold, send me the evidence and if I come to the same conclusion, I'll dispute the record on your behalf.
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  9. 06-02-2020, 12:55 AM
    For the record, I always salivate at the opportunity to be involved in the LEGITIMATE removal of any non-TGSAP record.
  10. 06-02-2020, 01:06 AM
    It is very difficult to understand the logic behind the leeching rule being applied in this particular instance.

    1. The game has no timer.
    2. The only way you can score points is by killing enemies.
    3. There is a max score.
    4. I can prove the current accepted score used leeching by the current definition.
    5. Your score does not stay after you complete the game.

    The current state of this board is that a run exists that cannot be broken if the letter of the leeching rule is applied. I think it is important to note my points above and take them into context when attempting to apply the spirit of the leeching rule. I personally believe the leeching rule to obviously be something that was taken from an arcade perspective and blanketed across all platforms. I think most would agree that it more often than not does not directly apply to a lot of console games. Therefore I think it is important to take into account the mechanics of the game and determine how the rule should be applied if at all. There are plently of NES games already on the board that allow leeching in various degrees. I think this game is a prime example of why applying point leeching by definition is totally pointless.

    Option 1:
    I could apply to have the old score removed and would likely succeed given evidence. I could then upload a new score with a "Perfect route" killed the maximum number of enemies that would result in a "perfect score" or a "max score" so to speak. Others could play and try to tie me.

    Option 2:
    We could assume that one of the commonly accepted formats should be applied to this game. The 5 life rule does not apply at all in this case because the difficulty of the game is so low and the marathon setting does not apply because the game maxes out. We can then assume that a custom set of rules probably should have been applied that would only allow a certain number of enemy kills and room clears but it all results in the same thing. Whether we figure out that playing the game normally is worth 310k and that is the new max or we as a community allow full leeching in this game and the max is 9,999,990 it doesn't really matter. Applying a leeching rule simply because nobody took the time to make correct rules for this game is a bit moot in my opinion. Especially since it is ignored and modified on a lot of other titles on this console that have similar if not identical criteria. In short the community decides what is allowed in a given game if the rules do not stipulate it, thats kind of the entire point of the voting system in the first place.
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