Dispute: Angela Stefanski - Atari Jaguar - Club Drive - Old West/Race [Fastest Completion] - Player: Kevin Opperman - Score: 49.3

Is this a valid dispute?

    This poll is closed
This poll is closed
  1. 07-18-2020, 10:58 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by TWIN GALAXIES View Post
    Same standards, different levels of responsibility to the public.
    thank you this comes the closes to answering my question. in fact it does answer my question but just creates a new one. yes, if there truly were different levels of responsiblity then of course i agree. I'm not sure how can state though that imported scores had any lower responsiblity. you know your own level of responsiblity but how can you presume to judge theirs? especially in cases where the same honor system was used, how was any higher level of resposnbility shown to the public in the cases where the same method was used?

    to reiterate what i told evener, i'm not talking about every single pre-tgsap score ever, i'm just saying, if it can be proven certain old scores were accepted stricly on the honor system (like with these imports) then wouldnt that mean there really is no difference? same level of responsiblity to the public, same level of reliability was ensured. if a particular score can be proven to have been honor system based, then shouldnt that score, even if from a ref have then also be open to dispute?

    i suppose if my question must be twisted into some cross the board site question, then the furthest i feel extending it, is in the case of a provably corrupt judge, who didnt respect their responsiblity to the public like ron corcoran, would scores he verified therefore also be open to removal
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
  2. 07-18-2020, 11:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    again not what i'm saying at all. I honestly dont understand, cause you tend to keep the most level headed of all of us yet it seems like you purposely keep chanign my words. i never said all or nothing i very explicilty stated just hte few. i never compared to the refs you mentioned, i compared to the scores that were adjudicated with the same level of evidence. i'm not sure how many different ways i can restate only to be stramanned with completley different words put in my mouth. perhaps you're ignoring my stated words because you assume theres some hidden implication? there isnt, i'm very literal. my words as i stated (outside of grammer or spelling mistakes) is what i meant
    Sorry Snowflake I'll give it another go. I guess I was thrown off by your mention of "self entry," which made me think of unethical behaviour:

    no, not what i said. i want to put a magazine editor who just accepts scores based on the honor system on par with a tg staff member who just accepts scores based on the honor system. self entry would be one such example. also, wasnt it even admitted that early tg scores were just honor system? no tape, no live tournmanent, just honor system?

    i'm not saying every singe ref score which would include the ones you mention. i'm specifically talking only about the ref scores that had the same honor system method as the magazine
    A scoreboard "honor system" in my mind is when someone says "I got this score" and the high score gatekeeper says "sounds good" and records it. If any kind of verification or evidence enters the equation (no matter how flawed), then I don't think it's an honor system any more.

    Yes, the first era of TG accepted scores from gamers via letter or phone, but formally TG required witnesses and arcade owners to vouch for the performance. Did it happen in every case? I don't think so, how else could Steve Sanders have increased his DK score so effortlessly increased his scores, culminating with this 3 million score? Yes, it required the "honor" of the witnesses or the arcade owner, but for all intents and purposes it serves as evidence for the gamer submitting the score, it's not based on their word alone.

    Contest like the Video Game Masters Tournament had tournament organizers (usually arcade owners working with Walter Day) verify performances. Usually score lists were filled out, and they were submitted or telephoned to Walter. Yes, one can argue that there's an honour element with the people verifying the score, but again in this case the gamer's word alone isn't enough to have their score recognized.

    Once TG is relaunched in 1997, gamers could submit arcade scores with the vouching of signed witnesses and a tech to verify settings (if they weren't playing during a TG sanctioned tournament), along with an accompanying photo of the final score. Photos were also used for consoles, too. Photos were eventually replaced with the need for video evidence. Of course, we also saw "live adjudication" by TG refs.

    So in that sense I don't see a direct parallel between the honor system of the magazine editor or Internet high score list and TG. One can recognize that TG refs had an obligation to behave honourably in their capacity as refs, but a pure "honor system" in my mind wouldn't have any ref or adjudication between the player declaring a score and having it entered onto the scoreboard. In the example of the magazine, the editor is little more than an instrument to record the score, not a verifier of the score.
    Thanks Snowflake, TWIN GALAXIES thanked this post
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