Dispute: Angela Stefanski - Atari Jaguar - Club Drive - Old West/Race [Fastest Completion] - Player: Kevin Opperman - Score: 49.3

Is this a valid dispute?

    This poll is closed
This poll is closed
  1. Dispute: Angela Stefanski - Atari Jaguar - Club Drive - Old West/Race [Fastest Completion] - Player: Kevin Opperman - Score: 49.3

    07-03-2020, 10:56 PM
    Atari Jaguar - Club Drive - Old West/Race [Fastest Completion]
    Score Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=769
    Rules
    This game has no settings for the player to select, therefore no specific rules apply. Please use default settings.
    Player Name
    Kevin Opperman
    Original Adjudication
    N/A
    Verification Method
    Referee
    Verification Date
    2004-06-11
    Disputed Score
    49.3 (Rank 1)
    Disputed By
    GibGirl
    Dispute Evidence / Rationale
    Still going with the good ol' crap score removal. (I invite anyone else interested in helping clean things up to look at the first link below, find any of those scores that are on TG, and dispute them with a copy or paraphrasing of the text of this dispute.)

    This score was added to the database from an external site. https://goo.gl/wUb5X8 (link to internet archive mirror) Evidence is strong that this site did absolutely no validations of any of the scores, accepting all claims as valid. Just looking at the content of the page, with just a form to "submit" a score, shows this to be likely.

    Further, multiple scores added to the database from this external list have already been disputed and removed due to being impossible, (see this dispute: https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...13,343,567,930) which should itself be sufficient to show that nothing on that list should be considered trustworthy. Also, this particular score is attributed to a person that is not a TG user, and has submitted no scores to TG at any point.

    I believe this score does not meet any of the standards for inclusion on TG and should be removed.
  2. 07-05-2020, 12:41 PM
    Why? I'm pretty much showing how plausible these scores are. These times are a great goal to aim for.

    I'm just kinda shocked as I'm just starting to focus on that scoreboard to see disputes start popping up.
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  3. 07-05-2020, 12:43 PM
    I will also add that without these scores, we wouldn't know what the actual rules are. That also means the rules need to be amended.
    Likes datagod liked this post
  4. 07-05-2020, 12:56 PM
    It's not about the plausibility of the scores. It's that the source for these scores has already been shown from multiple other disputes to be inherently untrustworthy, accepted without any proof, and I believe this alone is sufficient to remove all the scores that came from that source. And Jace has agreed with this, given how many have already been removed.
  5. 07-05-2020, 12:59 PM
    How many of these disputes were proven to be a plausible score by a current member before being removed?
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  6. 07-05-2020, 01:04 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Desidious View Post
    How many of these disputes were proven to be a plausible score by a current member before being removed?
    I haven't kept count, but there have been others removed with existing TGSAP scores on the board above them.
  7. 07-05-2020, 01:13 PM
    I don't like this one bit. Erasing valid history on a whim is not something I agree with at all. Can't even feel good about yourself getting first when you just remove everyone else. If the score is found to be plausible then I'm taking a firm stance against this.

    I vote no on this invalid dispute. This is not how you get to a top spot on a leaderboard.
    Thanks Bogart thanked this post
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  8. 07-05-2020, 01:40 PM
    I don't see it that way. History can never be erased with the way the system is set up. 1.2 million is a potentially valid DK score. Does that mean if I just post it with no evidence, or just post it to an obscure website and have it imported, there's even a chance that it's valid? This source just has next to nothing for evidence. Shmup boards keep some kind of evidence. Speedrunning communities do. This is just a crap source. Many of the numbers are impossible, many are possible but with no evidence. It just isn't worth anything. If anyone stepped forward with evidence their score was valid, I'm sure we'd hear them, even if it wasn't perfect to TGSAP current standards.

    But this isn't an erasing of history from my point of view. This should have been been allowed, there seems to be no oversight, no standards, no care. And I'm totally into syncing/importing/collaborating with outside sources! But not this one.
  9. 07-05-2020, 01:42 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Desidious View Post
    I don't like this one bit. Erasing valid history on a whim is not something I agree with at all. Can't even feel good about yourself getting first when you just remove everyone else. If the score is found to be plausible then I'm taking a firm stance against this.

    I vote no on this invalid dispute. This is not how you get to a top spot on a leaderboard.
    The whole point is that these scores are NOT valid. They were scores people put into a form on a website, and ended up on the list with no validation or confirmation at any point in the process. They were added to TG at a time when other scores were expected to have a video submission or referee verification - yet these were so completely unvetted that not only were unachievable scores added, but some were even listed under games that don't exist. The removal is because their addition itself was invalid.
  10. 07-05-2020, 01:46 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Foot0fGod View Post
    If anyone stepped forward with evidence their score was valid, I'm sure we'd hear them, even if it wasn't perfect to TGSAP current standards.
    We do, in fact, have one registered TG user who has scores on that list, @goochman . We've helped him get his old scores attached to his profile, and this dispute here is invalid because he provided a screenshot - https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...ore-77-498-770
    Thanks Lauren Tyler thanked this post
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