Sega Master System - The Ninja - NTSC - Points - 10,178,400 - Steven kerr

Is this Performance Claim Valid?

    This poll is closed
This poll is closed
  1. 09-29-2020, 10:22 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by JWillard View Post
    Taken at the start of the loop as you enter step 10 for the first time. Attachment 116485
    Here is the screenshot before score max out and roll over

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    and straight after hitting 9,999,950 and the score rolling over
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  2. 09-29-2020, 10:45 PM
    Once i maxed out the score and it rolled over, i did progress to the last level, kill the final boss and complete the game.

    Beating the final boss
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    End of game

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  3. 09-29-2020, 11:06 PM
    I have reviewed neither this submission, nor any of the evidence attached thereto. With that being said, you are correct in that constant looping through any stage is, by definition, leeching. As far as I can tell, there isn't even any dispute whether or not leeching has occurred, not even by the submitter. The argument as I observe it is, "someone else did it and got accepted, therefore, the global rule forbidding leeching doesn't apply".

    A couple of things to note:
    1. Someone else doing it (or the same person doing it, just on a different platform/region/etc.) does not nullify the rule.
    2. Someone else or the same person doing it and the score got accepted also does not nullify the rule.
    3. Any score imported from any magazine that isn't corroborated by some other form of evidence is total garbage, and is worth a bit less than used gauze gathered from a leper colony. (my opinion, but based on experience) and will likely get disputed just by fact alone, likely by me if someone doesn't beat me to it.
    4. In order to successfully dispute a score for the reason that it is suspected of leeching, one must make the case that the score is not possible without leeching.
    5. Number 4 doesnt even matter if #3 applies, as far Im concerned. The garbage will get disputed.

    The good news: You have solutions. A couple of options.

    1. Create a track that explicitly allows leeching in the track rules. Track rules are the only mechanism to supersede global rules. If you cannot create the track due to insufficient submission points, PM or tag me, and Ill make the track AND fully fund it for you.

    2. Simply play again, except without leeching, then submit the score to this track.

    3. Dispute the other score where you suspect that leeching occurred, and provide evidence that it was leeched ... especially if it is a score scraped from a magazine like a dead roach off the bottom of my shoe, dispute it.

    4. If you don't have the requisite CR to dispute it ... give it a bit, and Ill dispute it myself if everything is in order for a dispute.
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  4. 09-30-2020, 04:20 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett Holland View Post
    A couple of things to note:
    1. Someone else doing it (or the same person doing it, just on a different platform/region/etc.) does not nullify the rule.
    2. Someone else or the same person doing it and the score got accepted also does not nullify the rule.
    3. Any score imported from any magazine that isn't corroborated by some other form of evidence is total garbage, and is worth a bit less than used gauze gathered from a leper colony. (my opinion, but based on experience) and will likely get disputed just by fact alone, likely by me if someone doesn't beat me to it.
    There is plenty or precedent for this kind of thing - See Triforce's scores for SNES Contra 3 and Mortal Kombat on Arcade or the debacle that is Double Dragon on Arcade.

    You do what you gotta do to beat the score that's on the scoreboard. Don't see why we should penalize Steve for doing that.
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  5. 09-30-2020, 04:39 AM
    There is precedent for taking steroids in baseball, and without taking them several records are unbeatable. Taking steroids is still against the rules. Pointing to other point leeching instanced does not make it right. It simply means we have work to do to remove old scores where point leeching was used.
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  6. 09-30-2020, 05:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by JWillard View Post
    There is precedent for taking steroids in baseball, and without taking them several records are unbeatable. Taking steroids is still against the rules. Pointing to other point leeching instanced does not make it right. It simply means we have work to do to remove old scores where point leeching was used.
    You should go read how the disputes for those aforementioned scores went before spouting common sense in here.
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  7. 09-30-2020, 05:53 AM
    Kyle you’re precedents are where we
    argued if it wasbt even leeching no one claimed though that it both was leeching and also ok because others did it

    the argument here is more like double dragon battletoads where leeching was used cause surely the top score leeched. Despite all the already mentioned issues with that it turned out top score didn’t even use leeching and the people insisting it did weren’t the experts they thought

    by all means find a way to explain why it’s not leeching , but accusing top score of cheating in no way justifies others doing the same

    all that said my feelings on imported scores are clear. Though I’m no expert in this game I think we have enough to justify a good faith dispute of that score
    Lode Runner Champion
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  8. 09-30-2020, 12:26 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by EVN View Post
    There is plenty or precedent for this kind of thing - See Triforce's scores for SNES Contra 3 and Mortal Kombat on Arcade or the debacle that is Double Dragon on Arcade.

    You do what you gotta do to beat the score that's on the scoreboard. Don't see why we should penalize Steve for doing that.
    I agree with the principle of "do what you have to do" in general. I haven't reviewed the evidence in this case, so I haven't voted up or down on anything just yet. I just don't see how advising the player to submit this specific performance on a track that explicitly allows leeching, superseding the global prohibition on it, would constitute as any sort of "penalty".

    Also, IIRC, TriForce did not say that he leeched in his Contra 10M game ... just the opposite. From what Ive read - he has been quite tight-lipped about it.
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  9. 09-30-2020, 12:58 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett Holland View Post
    I agree with the principle of "do what you have to do" in general. I haven't reviewed the evidence in this case, so I haven't voted up or down on anything just yet. I just don't see how advising the player to submit this specific performance on a track that explicitly allows leeching, superseding the global prohibition on it, would constitute as any sort of "penalty".

    Also, IIRC, TriForce did not say that he leeched in his Contra 10M game ... just the opposite. From what Ive read - he has been quite tight-lipped about it.
    well that track "limited leeching" was allowed so he both denied leeching, as well as claiming that even if he leech it would've been covered under the "limited" or "not excessive" clause (some tracks say limited some say not excessive i forgot which ones word it which way). you know how "even ifs" can go, it can come off as an admission but you're correct triforce never stated that he leeched.
    Lode Runner Champion
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  10. 09-30-2020, 01:00 PM
    Awesome score. A WR
    I played this years ago ,this is leeching period 10 million or more by using this is easy. No player can score 10 million without using this.
    Either create a another track and let leeching or delete the score 1.9 million score since their is no video game recording. Make note that leeching is not permitted.
    JJTJohnnyLightning World #1 Racer on Arcade Game Fast & Furious Super Cars 1,872 Match Wins 52Cities
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