NES / FAMICOM / DISK - Marble Madness - NTSC - Points - 183,040 - Brian Kearsley

Is this Performance Claim Valid?

    This poll is closed
This poll is closed
  1. NES / FAMICOM / DISK - Marble Madness - NTSC - Points - 183,040 - Brian Kearsley

    10-12-2020, 09:13 PM
    vzaar-player


    NTSC - Points
    Score Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=1756
    Rules
    Factory Default
    Special Rules: This is a 1 Player attempt! Bringing in Player 2 at ANYTIME is an INSTANT disqualification!
    Submission Message
    I have been grinding for high scores on the NES version of Marble Madness - NTSC for a little while now, and this is my first run that breached the 183,000 barrier.

    Notes:
    - Practice: 5,000 point jump, finished with 53 seconds.
    - Beginner: 1,000 Steelie kill, and a late wand while I waited at the finish line to see if a wand shows up. Ideally, I would like a wand earlier so I can finish with either 58 or 59 seconds left, but I'm willing to accept as low at 53.
    - Intermediate: Lost one second in the maze, as I messed up the fast double-bounce. Otherwise fine.
    - Aerial: Lost one second due to slow movement on the way to the catapult. Also, because I had to camp out in Beginner for the wand, the global timer for the hammers was now working against me, and I got a slow pattern.
    - Silly: Bad diamond movement, nearly optimal wand, and a clean silly skip.
    - Ultimate: Messed up my setup for the Steelie kill, but got the lucky framerule that allows for an 80 second finish!

    Happy with this one!

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  2. 10-13-2020, 12:01 PM
    There is zero doubt in my mind about the validity of this run. The runner is hands down the best in the world at this game, livestreams hundreds of attempts of this quality on a regular basis, and I have played with him personally in real life (where he also performed at this level).

    It's a brilliant run and I will happily take 2nd place on the high score list to it.
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  3. 10-13-2020, 12:49 PM
    I was under the impression that for an NES score to qualify the system bootup and cartridge had to be shown in the video. Screen capture does not meet the criteria needed to vote yes. Am I wrong on this?

    Holding off on my vote until those with more experience with what's needed weigh in.

    Amazing playing BTW. That is a hard game and you make it look easy!
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  4. 10-13-2020, 12:53 PM
    That was awesome to watch. I feel it is unlikely to be accepted here though. TG members prefer for the video to feature the console rather than be just a screen capture.
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  5. 10-13-2020, 01:15 PM
    this is awkward cause i like many newer members prefer camera, but direct feed has been long accepted. along the way adjudicator preferences got confused for requirements. still again this puts me in an awkward spot cause i'm in favor of camera more, i just dont wanna mislead anyone with the wrong reason, as a direct capture advocate @Barthax could probably explain the case better without appearing to contradict himself
    Lode Runner Champion
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  6. 10-13-2020, 01:52 PM
    I went back and found the official guidelines and there are a few points that make me think the video should include the cartridge and system. The boot up also seems to be important.

    "System boot up and game application launch/startup should be shown for Arcade and Console platforms in any evidence video provided."

    "Unless otherwise specified in a game leaderboard variation rule set, the general rule is that all games are to be played with original hardware, with original game software"

    "Console games must be run on official hardware. However, modifications needed to support the use of external storage devices such as the PlayStation 2 HDD, PS2 HD Loader, Everdrive or other mechanisms are considered generally acceptable unless otherwise prohibited by track specific rules, or the discovery and documentation of definitive unfair advantage of use for that game track during an adjudicative score verification process. This section does not apply to PC games, as they have no stock hardware."

    To me you cannot tell most of this without seeing it in the video, and the boot up does not happen in this game.

    On the other side of that I see,

    "Console players may use third-party controllers, but may not use features not present on controllers bundled with the system. For example, auto- or turbo-fire controllers are banned, except for the TurboGrafix-16 where stock controllers have it. Pressing up and down or left and right simultaneously on a dpad is not allowed as it requires hardware modification in order to do so. PC gamers may use any reasonable input device and remap keys, but may not use macros, scripts or programmable keyboards to automate button-presses."

    and I see no player showing controllers in videos.

    Once again, I am just the new guy trying to learn the process, so please take no offense to this.
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  7. 10-13-2020, 01:59 PM
    well this is why its not abuse for you to choose to reject direct feed. ultimately it comes down to, do you believe the performance is valid. so while cameria is not explicilty required, if you feel thats the only way to verify the other requirements than you're justified judging accordingly

    a simliar argument comes up with showing board for arcade. there is no requirement you must show the board. however there is a requirement the board must be original. as far as im concerned the difference is pure semantics. how can you verify the board is authentic without seeing it? never the less, since there is no rule saying to show board an argument occasionally comes up
    Lode Runner Champion
  8. 10-13-2020, 02:04 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by JWillard View Post
    I went back and found the official guidelines and there are a few points that make me think the video should include the cartridge and system. The boot up also seems to be important.

    "System boot up and game application launch/startup should be shown for Arcade and Console platforms in any evidence video provided."

    "Unless otherwise specified in a game leaderboard variation rule set, the general rule is that all games are to be played with original hardware, with original game software"

    "Console games must be run on official hardware. However, modifications needed to support the use of external storage devices such as the PlayStation 2 HDD, PS2 HD Loader, Everdrive or other mechanisms are considered generally acceptable unless otherwise prohibited by track specific rules, or the discovery and documentation of definitive unfair advantage of use for that game track during an adjudicative score verification process. This section does not apply to PC games, as they have no stock hardware."

    To me you cannot tell most of this without seeing it in the video, and the boot up does not happen in this game.

    On the other side of that I see,

    "Console players may use third-party controllers, but may not use features not present on controllers bundled with the system. For example, auto- or turbo-fire controllers are banned, except for the TurboGrafix-16 where stock controllers have it. Pressing up and down or left and right simultaneously on a dpad is not allowed as it requires hardware modification in order to do so. PC gamers may use any reasonable input device and remap keys, but may not use macros, scripts or programmable keyboards to automate button-presses."

    and I see no player showing controllers in videos.

    Once again, I am just the new guy trying to learn the process, so please take no offense to this.
    These specific guidelines aren't "rules", per se, however, including these things will certainly encourage more people to vote yes on a submission. For me personally, I will not vote on any console submission where the only evidence provided is direct capture footage, and that's only if I don't outright vote no, but I'm just one guy and that is my own personal standard. To me, "original hardware" means "original hardware", and when footage does not show original hardware, then how can anyone know it was original hardware vs. emulation other than "trust me, bro." We tried the "trust me, bro" route before, and has subsequently caused many, many, MANY problems (including lawsuits ... even currently active lawsuits). We have also tried the "Hey ... I know this dude ... he's totally legit" route before. Same result. We've even gone the "I saw the dude get this score myself ... I was right there and watched it" route, just to turn out to be ... uh ... inaccurate, to put it politely.

    TL;DR

    The lack of demonstrating the original hardware and controller in the footage is not against the rules, however, if one's objective is to get their submission accepted and do so quickly, it is HIGHLY recommended that they include the above in their submission. Otherwise, their submission may just grow stale in the queue for years, and I can't say I'd be surprised. The days of just taking gamers at their word are over.
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  9. 10-13-2020, 06:08 PM
    Hi folks!

    Firstly, thanks for the kind words on the run!

    I will readily admit that I did not go through the submission rules thoroughly. Rather, I reviewed the current high score, saw that it was a direct capture, and thought that my direct capture would be sufficient. A naïve thought, perhaps, but I assure you my heart's in the right place. :)

    I am using an original console and controller, and while I certainly have the hardware to capture the console and my controller and the like, it would run counter to my current Twitch layout, where I use it as a face-cam and only show my hands for special circumstances like doing 1-player 2-controller runs and the like.

    I rather enjoy live-streaming my attempts and interacting with folks, so I'm trying to think of another route that would satisfy the requirements that I am now aware of.

    I have an old Canon camcorder. If I recorded from a vantagepoint that showed my hands and the console with that, and I submitted that video in tandem with the direct capture video, would that be sufficient?
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  10. 10-13-2020, 06:20 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by yelsraek View Post
    Hi folks!

    Firstly, thanks for the kind words on the run!

    I will readily admit that I did not go through the submission rules thoroughly. Rather, I reviewed the current high score, saw that it was a direct capture, and thought that my direct capture would be sufficient. A naïve thought, perhaps, but I assure you my heart's in the right place. :)

    I am using an original console and controller, and while I certainly have the hardware to capture the console and my controller and the like, it would run counter to my current Twitch layout, where I use it as a face-cam and only show my hands for special circumstances like doing 1-player 2-controller runs and the like.

    I rather enjoy live-streaming my attempts and interacting with folks, so I'm trying to think of another route that would satisfy the requirements that I am now aware of.

    I have an old Canon camcorder. If I recorded from a vantagepoint that showed my hands and the console with that, and I submitted that video in tandem with the direct capture video, would that be sufficient?
    As far as I personally am concerned (which doesn't amount much), you don't even to go that far, although going that far would certainly garner more yes votes. Start the Canon recording first, record your console, controller, and then power on the console and begin your capture recording. At this point while you now have both running, record you using the controller and the game reacting to your input, then stop the Canon recording. This will allow you to only have to deal with one very small (less than one minute?) recording along with your main recording. Submit both video files on the same submission, which will allow adjudicators (who even care, which some don't, nor do they have to care) to sync up both videos to establish continuity.
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