Atari 2600 / VCS - Krull - NTSC - Game 1 (Points) - 164,000 - Ulisses Lima

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  1. Atari 2600 / VCS - Krull - NTSC - Game 1 (Points) - 164,000 - Ulisses Lima

    11-21-2020, 09:21 PM
    vzaar-player


    NTSC - Game 1 (Points)
    Score Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=3793
    Rules
    Game 1 = Regular difficulty.
    Difficulty switches serve no function in this game and can therefore be left in either position.

    Submission Message
    Hi guys! This is my Krull gameplay.

    The game starts in 1 minute and 26 seconds.
    And it ends in 1 hour 49 minutes and 21 seconds.
    Thank you very much for voting!

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  2. 11-22-2020, 07:01 PM
    So, you played the game for over an hour and only killed the Beast once? :)
    Krull is one of those games where, if you're strictly looking to get the highest score possible, point-pressing is not only part of the strategy, it's the only strategy. That's because the 2nd time you kill the Beast, the difficulty jumps up to a level where it's nearly impossible to continue. I rolled the score counter on this one many years ago, simply point-pressing the web screen. I forget how long my game took, but your strategy would certainly take longer to roll the score since you're spending time to go through all 3 screens (web, desert, fortress) and intentionally not rescuing Lyssa. If you play the game according to the manual and intentionally set out to get to the fortress, rescue Lyssa, and kill the Beast as fast as possible, you'll reach the 3rd level with around 20,000. From there, you might get lucky on the web screen (and with the location of the fortress), but you're luck will soon run out because as I said, the game becomes nearly impossible to play at that level. So as long as TG is fine with accepting point-pressing on this title, it becomes a matter of settling on a strategy for point-pressing and marathoning the game.
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  3. 11-22-2020, 07:47 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott S. View Post
    So, you played the game for over an hour and only killed the Beast once? :)
    Krull is one of those games where, if you're strictly looking to get the highest score possible, point-pressing is not only part of the strategy, it's the only strategy. That's because the 2nd time you kill the Beast, the difficulty jumps up to a level where it's nearly impossible to continue. I rolled the score counter on this one many years ago, simply point-pressing the web screen. I forget how long my game took, but your strategy would certainly take longer to roll the score since you're spending time to go through all 3 screens (web, desert, fortress) and intentionally not rescuing Lyssa. If you play the game according to the manual and intentionally set out to get to the fortress, rescue Lyssa, and kill the Beast as fast as possible, you'll reach the 3rd level with around 20,000. From there, you might get lucky on the web screen (and with the location of the fortress), but you're luck will soon run out because as I said, the game becomes nearly impossible to play at that level. So as long as TG is fine with accepting point-pressing on this title, it becomes a matter of settling on a strategy for point-pressing and marathoning the game.


    You can take your general questions to the TG members there on the wall.
    There it would be more appropriate.

    If I'm not mistaken, you try to demean my gameplay.

    My gameplay is clean without glicth, without litch, without cheating ...

    If you don't like it for a personal reason it is your right. But I don't see any point in exposing you here.
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  4. 11-22-2020, 08:32 PM
    Nothing that detracts from your move, everything is correct.
    Voting yes :)
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  5. 11-22-2020, 09:19 PM
    I'm not demeaning your gameplay, Ulisses, and I'm not saying you broke any rules regarding this game. I'm simply calling out the strategy you're using. You intentionally didn't rescue Lyssa and kill the Beast for over an hour, and when you finally did, you let the game run out. I've seen your other videos, and you're certainly capable of clearing the first level in a matter of minutes. Or are you saying that was your best effort in trying to complete the first level? Because if you are, I'm not buying it. I don't have a problem with you 'milking' the first level, but I do have a problem with people who won't admit it when they clearly are.
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  6. 11-22-2020, 09:28 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulisses Patriota View Post
    You can take your general questions to the TG members there on the wall.
    There it would be more appropriate.

    If I'm not mistaken, you try to demean my gameplay.

    My gameplay is clean without glicth, without litch, without cheating ...

    If you don't like it for a personal reason it is your right. But I don't see any point in exposing you here.
    There must be something within an English-to-Portuguese translation that always incorrectly implies insult or a demeaning tone, because I did not detect such an attitude from Scott, and this is not the first, second, or twentieth time Ive seen that helpful comments are construed as such. Scott was supplying you with beneficial information regarding point-pressing and leeching on this title, and was suggesting that the method used in this performance blurs the lines between the two. Subjectivity does play a role in what consititutes one or the other, however, there does cone a point where it becomes objective. I have good reason to believe that if the type of method Scott has described was being used is to be "acceptable" on a leaderboard where leeching is prohibited by the global rules, and not overridden by a track rule explicity allowing it, he has a score far exceeding this one that he would have submitted years ago if not for the prohibition, so this isn't some sort of personal vendetta against you because you captured a record he could not gotten himself a long time ago.

    Please ... not everyone's critique is an insult or demeaning. Everyone wants the same thing here.

    Now, my comments about the guy you beat on Bermuda Triangle were MOST DEFINITELY insults against him. Look at the difference in what I said about him and his "gameplay" (abuse of the word in his case, tbh), and what Scott has said here. Much different.
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  7. 11-22-2020, 09:34 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott S. View Post
    I'm not demeaning your gameplay, Ulisses, and I'm not saying you broke any rules regarding this game. I'm simply calling out the strategy you're using. You intentionally didn't rescue Lyssa and kill the Beast for over an hour, and when you finally did, you let the game run out. I've seen your other videos, and you're certainly capable of clearing the first level in a matter of minutes. Or are you saying that was your best effort in trying to complete the first level? Because if you are, I'm not buying it. I don't have a problem with you 'milking' the first level, but I do have a problem with people who won't admit it when they clearly are.
    Just curious (never played it ... never even seen it played) Is this a title where one can engage in unlimited point pressing?
  8. 11-22-2020, 09:35 PM
    ... and by "can", I mean does the game itself make it possible?
  9. 11-22-2020, 10:47 PM
    scott's question is valid. Its important to remember in adjudciation criticism and questions are more appropriate than normal This is the proper place for it. The job of adjudicators is to try to find issues if they exist and bring them up. That can sometimes be less than friendly, that can sometimes lead to behavior thats unacceptable elsewhere, but appropriate here.

    now on to the specific criticism. The issue is what TG calls "leeching". Honestly the ruleset can be problematic, and frankly i think if people dont like leeching they should deal with it by speedrunning instead of trying to make awkward rules where so many grey areas, but thats not my call, the fact is, leeching rules do exist even if they're not explicilty stated.

    What you're doing could indeed be considered leeching. Now i see two possible defenses. One defense is if leeching is hard enough its no longer deemed leeching so adjudicators are empowered to make exceptions. Also, another issue, is it seems awkward to punish a person for honest mistakes that result in the game lasting longer. Doesnt seem right that a person who accidentally messes up is allowed to stay on the level longer but the person who does it on purpose gets harmed. So there are certainly points you can try to make in your defense, i'd suggest taking that route instead of trying to deny someone's right to raise valid questions.

    as for me i'm abstaining. I do believe its leeching, but i also believe this game has too much grey area. I believe we just need a better ruleset for this game.
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  10. 11-22-2020, 10:53 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett Holland View Post
    Just curious (never played it ... never even seen it played) Is this a title where one can engage in unlimited point pressing?
    i used to play a lot as a kid

    1. first phase, in theory yes, not humanly possible also its a survival wave, kinda like bonus screen in carnival where the intention is definitley that you're supposed to drag it out as long as possible. This is just me being thorough, noone is good enough and this point wont come up, but on the off chance it does it would be fine and is theoretically possible
    2. ever watch the movie? loved it as a kid. fortress rises in a different day every morning. the wise old woman in the giant spiders cave tells you the location. If you choose wrong you lose a life and have to try again. fortunately on the wrong path you can pick up a life so it cancels out (so infinite) or a glaive.
    3. if you do make the right location you can leave, especially if you lose your weapon and try to get the weapon again. this will result in the day likley ending and needing to find out again the new location. so pretty much the same scenario as point 2 above, except no loss of life.s

    in other words, YES BUT, this isnt a case of someone sitting in a safe spot refusing to progress and racking up easy points. Here the elongated game can easily come from failures. It would be analogous to taking a negative warp zone is super mario bros 2, lost leves, or going the wrong way and winding up backwars in secion z. its absolutely an intended design of the game that you be punished for mistakes by repeating the level. problem is, thats not much of a punishment if the infinite repeat leads to more points. bad game design. this would be far better run as a speedrun game. as a point games, only the points from the first phase should be tracked since thats the only part you're supposed to drag out
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