Emulation Submission Rejected: Down-Vote by High-Cred TG Member Duped by False Advertising

  1. 11-26-2020, 06:49 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post
    I will have time over the next few days to go over everything TG - but in the meanwhile, the thought was to simply set up FPGA as its own generalized platform which would be all inclusive of games played using that technology.

    I had asked for a list of FPGA platforms that people want initially included underneath the master category (think of how MAME versions are handled), but I do not think I got much response. I'll have to look and see what is there.

    While I agree that eventually original hardware will become more and more scarce, and FPGA can theoretically "match" original hardware in terms of program execution - which leads it toward being the future of the arcade hobby, there will still be some hurdles to clear in regard to whether or not people will consider them to be "the same."

    Imagine an FPGA version of the arcade version of Donkey Kong. Imagine someone gets a 1.3MM on such a platform. Would it be regarded as same or equal to original hardware by the community? I am unsure.

    Anyway, I agree that this is a real issue to be examined and considered with detail and attention.

    Over the next few days I will be catching up on all this and other TG items.

    Thank you!
    Despite Analogue's deceptive advertising FPGA clones are in fact emulation. It's just a different type of emulation, however, it still relies on the skill of the coder to make it as accurate as possible. Even Analogue's own clone consoles are NOT exact matches to real hardware, and must be considered their own category if ever tracked for records. They should NEVER be tracked with original hardware. Period.
  2. 11-26-2020, 08:54 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by SJP176 View Post
    Ought there not to be just two categories here: (1) original hardware and (2) emulation (software emulation on a PC, hardware emulation/clone systems, etc.)?
    After looking into this topic in more detail, I'm inclined to agree with the above statement.

    As such please take a look at the draft version of the clarifying rules surrounding EMU and FPGA

    If anything needs to be added or adjusted please let me know.

    This will not be considered official until posted to the TG Wiki and announced by TG itself in a separate wall post.

    ----
    RECOMMENDED GUIDELINES FOR SUBMISSIONS USING EMULATION

    Unless otherwise specified by a track or platform specific rule, all forms of EMU and hardware replication are acceptable to EMU designated game tracks.

    Acceptable EMU platforms include (but are not limited to) can be found here:
    https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

    Twin Galaxies makes a specific distinction between submitted performances ORIGINAL HARDWARE and submitted performances using EMULATION / HARDWARE REPLICATION (collectively now referred to as 'EMU').

    This distinction is necessary in order to maintain fair and competitive playing measurements.

    A video game platform emulator is a type of emulator that allows a computing device to emulate a video game platform’s hardware and play its games on the emulating platform. More often than not, emulators carry additional features that surpass the limitations of the original hardware, such as broader controller compatibility, timescale control, greater performance, clearer quality, easier access to memory modifications, one-click cheat codes, and unlocking of gameplay features.

    Emulation can come in the form of software run on a computer or through hardware replication (FPGA).

    Both software emulation and hardware replication are not considered to be “the original game hardware” and therefore Twin Galaxies only allows submission of performances that use these methods to leaderboards that are designated as being for EMU.

    When submitting a score performance for an EMU specified game leaderboard, you must include in the submission description as much information as possible regarding the emulation software or hardware replication used - so that the adjudicating community can examine those details if necessary.

    Minimum information required is:

    1.) Name / Type of emulator or Hardware Replicator (FPGA) including version #
    2.) If computer platform is used to run software emulation, identify which operating system it was run on (Windows, macOS, Linux, etc.)
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  3. 11-26-2020, 10:57 PM
    "Minimum information required is:

    1.) Name / Type of emulator or Hardware Replicator (FPGA) including version #
    2.) If computer platform is used to run software emulation, identify which operating system it was run on (Windows, macOS, Linux, etc.)"

    Settings would need to be shown too. Some devices allow you to speed up the crystal clock of the console, and if doing manually timed runs, people can gain an unfair advantage with those speed-up settings. For example: If you have an original Playstation modded with a PS1Digital, that mod has a menu feature that will speed up the crystal clock of the system. Over a run that takes an hour long, that amounts to several seconds of manually saved time. Also if the Playstation system is modded with an optical drive emulator like the XStation, that needs to be shown too during the boot process as it has significantly faster seek times from an SD card than an actual laser drive does. Games with audio dialog tracks like Resident Evil greatly benefit from this faster seek time.
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  4. 12-11-2020, 02:40 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post
    I will have time over the next few days to go over everything TG - but in the meanwhile, the thought was to simply set up FPGA as its own generalized platform which would be all inclusive of games played using that technology.

    I had asked for a list of FPGA platforms that people want initially included underneath the master category (think of how MAME versions are handled), but I do not think I got much response. I'll have to look and see what is there.



    Thank you!
    Jace, my apologies for not getting back to you sooner on this.

    Here are the FPGA that I am personally aware of, but I'm sure there is more.

    NES:
    RetroUSB AVS
    Analogue NT, NT Mini, and Noir

    SNES:
    Analogue Super NT

    Sega Genesis / Mega Drive:
    Anaolgue Mega SG

    PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16:
    Analogue Duo

    Various handhelds:
    Analogue Pocket (Gameboy / Gameboy Color / Gameboy Advance, with adapters to also play Game Gear, Neo Geo Pocket, Atari Lynx and possibly more)

    Arcade FPGA:
    BitKit - http://craftymech.com/bitkit-arcade-fpga/
    JROK MultiWilliams FPGA - https://www.arcadeshop.com/i/1121/wi...-jamma-pcb.htm

    General FPGA systems:
    MiST - original Amiga and AtariST FPGA platform
    MiSTer - upgraded FPGA allows many more "cores" to be run on the predecessor (with upgraded RAM module can run Neo Geo arcade games, many 8 and 16-bit consoles/computers, and over 100 arcade "cores" so far, with more being added all the time. A good primer for those interested is this video.

    As you can see, there are a lot of choices! But the goal is the same - to preserve past consoles and computers and make them accessible to today's gamers and let them use them on modern or older (CRT) displays as accurately as possible. Here is good article for more information, it's a deep rabbit hole to go down and I could never explain it very well myself.

    I hope this helps!

    - Pete
  5. 12-11-2020, 03:01 PM
    I'm all for the Analogue systems being allowed as original for one reason....I'm not a speed runner and they are incredibly accurate. I believe a test was already done using Super Mario Kart on the Analogue SNES and an original SNES. In a time trial race, the Analogue SNES was 1 second slower over a 10 minutes period. If any human being can detect a 1 sec difference over a 10 minute span they are a God and not human, so it doesn't apply. Sooner or later, and probably in my lifetime all of these old consoles will not have parts to fix them and will be finished. People are inventing new technology to use on these old consoles like wireless SNES controllers and the such already, so the term "original" might as well be changed to "functional". We already use Everdrives because I think every can at least agree it makes it possible to compete on any game you want without going bankrupt. Good luck finding a copy of Cheetahmen 2.

    I would either make FPGA's as original from the start if they are already being considered to be the future of "original" consoles, or make them emulation forever and not move them. Just opens up an entirely new can of worms having a system be "emulation" one decade then make it "original" because equipment no longer functions to perform on original equipment.
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