Arcade - Spy Hunter - Points - 1,290,805 - Timothy Kinkead

Is this Performance Claim Valid?

    This poll is closed
This poll is closed
  1. 03-02-2021, 07:20 AM
    I see now that you did add additional video evidence. Thanks.

    To JJT's point - each submission evidence package should stand alone. We can't count on your prior accepted submission being proof that new submissions are on the same machine with no changes and such. I do agree that you should include this footage with each submission. I would do the same.
  2. 03-02-2021, 07:33 AM
    I have included 4 additional videos of the internals of my machine. I do not know how that can help, but I hope it does. How many people who vote can actually make any sense of those videos I just submitted? Besides seeing something unplugged (which could be a warning sign), I just don't think that most people who vote on video would have any idea what those circuit boards even do. I know that I don't. And I already had a score that counted without all of the pictures of the inside of my machine.
    Now, if we are going to talk about actual criteria for judgement of score...things that we can actually measure, I think the additional scrutiny should be focused on the older submitted games, not mine. If the requirement to submit scores is for me to pull out and open my Spy Hunter every time, that just isn't going to happen. On the other hand, accepting older scores without any kind of physical evidence while requiring this level of burden on modern users will make sure that older scores are never challenged. If that is what is desired, then the mission is being accomplished. I'd say that doing basic math on scoring averages yields a lot more about the validity of a particular score than numerous people looking at the inside of an arcade machine at parts they don't understand before clicking yes or no. This is getting absurd.
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  3. 03-02-2021, 07:39 AM
    Has anyone even cataloged what messing with the boards of games does to an arcade machine? I know there was a Donkey Kong controversy, but is that level of cheating possible on all machines? I'd imagine and tampering would lead to fatal flaws or failure to boot. IDK...I think this is a focus on a less likely, more obvious way to cheat. In Spy Hunter, why potentially wreck your machine when you can just use the weapons van glitch to jack your scores up to absurd levels?
  4. 03-02-2021, 07:43 AM
    I'd think the settings screen would be affected by board tampering as well.
  5. 03-02-2021, 07:52 AM
    The main purpose behind including video of the inside of your machine was to confirm that it wasn't rigged up as a MAME machine, as that would have its own specific requirements for submission and adjudication.

    There has been concerns raised about PCB tampering as a way to cheat, specifically swapping out ROMs for a set that, for the sake of argument, was "easier" to play, so you're right in the sense that simply showing the inside of your machine and the PCB isn't an iron-clad way to ensure 100% legit game play. But there has to be a balance between the "risk" of someone rigging up a cheat and creating a verification standard that would make participation almost impossible, such as removing the ROMs to have them read to confirm they're the right ones.

    Since TG is a legacy scoreboard that started tracking score submissions back in the 80s, it's inevitable that there will be a mix of verification standards as they evolved over time. Certainly the WR score, which was achieved at the Video Game Masters Tournament, was believed to be an environment that minimized shenanigans and ensured a level playing field among participants at the different arcade locations across the country through standardized rules. But like any sports match, you may get a different call or interpretation of the rules from the ref in those grey zone interpretations.

    I completely agree that dragging out the arcade game to film the interior each time is a huge pain. Ultimately, I try to include continuous video of my game that includes the interior any time I play as it will maximize my chances of getting the greatest number of members to adjudicate.
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  6. 03-02-2021, 08:09 AM
    Mr. Kinkead you seem to be very defensive about this. Don't run off on us because you think we're picking on you. It's not that. The Evener described very well what position we're in dealing with various eras and administrations of TG. I'm personally sorry if you think this information is intended to attack you or discredit your performance.

    I know that you focus on scoring averages and glitches and such, but what remains important is that TG requires submissions to be done on original hardware. The absence of evidence of this doesn't mean your score won't be accepted - if people believe it to be performed on original hardware they'll vote Yes. It's just best practice to include as much evidence as possible.
  7. 03-02-2021, 08:17 AM
    I'd think there would be easier ways to tell that than looking in a machine and hoping to see something, even though most don't know what they are looking at. The game would play differently if something was switched out or off...the video takes care of that. If anyone watches my videos, they see the game progressing in difficulty, and getting extremely difficult by the end. The game settings at the very end show it is within the parameters. As far as the MAME issue is concerned, what advantage would there be to putting a MAME in an arcade cab? Why not just play on your PC? Furthermore, from the pics I saw of MAME...it is digital, not analog. The details are much clearer and thus easy to spot.

    As far as the world record is concerned, I do not think there were much of any rules...the judge (who was one of the two witnesses) was not there at the game. The other witness was talking to him on the phone. There was no picture, video, news story...nothing. There is no way to know the machine settings and really no way to even no the game was ever played. The score average is only possible by using the weapons van glitch (as I demonstrated) and strongly seems to be mathematically improbable, if not impossible. Yet, that score remains and I have to show videos of the internal workings of my machine (not just settings) every time I submit? Why is there so much suspicion of new gamers cheating but no concern whatsoever about the older scores that are proven to be absurd? Did cheating just get invented? I think the answer to that is obvious.
  8. 03-02-2021, 08:22 AM
    Annoyed more than defensive...I just think that the level of proof required to submit the old arcade game scores is high...many of the cheats or advantages can be detected without opening your machine every time. Sorry to vent...I posted additional videos and I hope they help.
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  9. 03-02-2021, 08:24 AM
    Am I allowed to cross-reference my internal machine videos with my other submissions? If so, I'd like to do that.
  10. 03-02-2021, 08:30 AM
    Vent anytime. We all do that some.

    You'll find that scrutiny of pre-TGSAP scores will be an ongoing theme here. It's the nature of the beast. There is absolutely no way to know for sure how stringent the verification requirements for the old scores. You've provided an exceptional body of information already on this game and it is much appreciated.
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