Dispute: John McAllister - M.A.M.E. - Rygar [US set 1] - Points [Marathon Settings] - Player: Matt Hall - John P McAllister

Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. Dispute: John McAllister - M.A.M.E. - Rygar [US set 1] - Points [Marathon Settings] - Player: Matt Hall - John P McAllister

    03-06-2021, 10:52 AM
    M.A.M.E. - Rygar [US set 1] - Points [Marathon Settings]

    ROMSet: Rygar
    Lives: 3
    Cabinet: Upright
    Unknown: Off [All]
    Bonus Life: 100000
    Difficulty: Normal
    2P Can Start Any Time: No
    Allow continue: No
    Special Rules: This is a Single Player ONLY variation. Continues are NOT allowed!
    Player Name
    Matt Hall
    Original Adjudication
    Verification Method
    Verification Date
    Disputed Score
    5,891,480 (Rank 2)
    Disputed By
    Dispute Evidence / Rationale
    Score believed to have been played on the wrong romset.
    Thanks 80sArcadeKid, Shahbaz thanked this post
    Likes Shahbaz liked this post
  2. 03-06-2021, 11:29 AM
    What is the evidence?
    Jace Hall
    Head Custodian
  3. 03-06-2021, 11:32 AM
    This is from the inp playback of the score in question.

    Name:  1.PNG
Views: 77
Size:  306.4 KB

    This is from an inp playback of a test with the settings set to normal difficulty.

    Name:  2.PNG
Views: 73
Size:  306.6 KB

    Romset used was for Argus no Senshi (Japan)
    Difficulty settings were on easy or default at the time.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Thanks 80sArcadeKid thanked this post
  4. 03-06-2021, 11:33 AM
    Ignore the bottom 2 images.

    Here is the inp
  5. 03-06-2021, 03:39 PM
    I requested this dispute (and one other) as I don't have the credibility points yet.
    It was 2am when I finally got the Win XP virtual machine running the INPS so went to bed.
    Other than what is posted I'll start.

    Summary of evidence(details to follow)

    - The run was in the wrong rom set: rygarj (Japan) instead of rygar (US Set 01). This in itself is probably enough evidence as both rom sets have been available since around 1998. The Japanese rom has an addition life awarded, different set pickups and slower enemies. I'm making a video today of the INP only able to be played using rygarj rom in M.A.M.E. 0.36b on Windows XP in VirtualBox, and the INP is named rygarj.inp in the original zip file.

    - Correlation with identical MARP scores and players from the era, that are using the wrong rom (rygarj). To achieve the exact same score on a separate INP played in another game would be conceivably impossible.
    Name:  MARP.jpg
Views: 62
Size:  167.7 KB

    - Old TG thread (2010) stating that the specific INP in question was played back and found to be wrong rom and wrong settings
    Would love to know what happened with the investigation "Renegade" did back in Sat Jul 04, 2009. No outcome posted.

    Additional info:
    - No corresponding INP stored in TG INP Archive (Google Drive)

    - No TG account held by the score holder, he has never submitted a score to TG that can be found. Not uncommon but obvious they never submitted a score themselves and may not even know it is lodged.

    - No record, evidence or statement of submission and validation process when score was merged into TG database that can be found.
    (Who did this in 2005, why?)
    Likes redelf liked this post
  6. 03-06-2021, 03:55 PM
    If Twin Galaxies would allow me to upload videos to this dispute that would be great, for now it's on YouTube here.

    This was made back when I discovered the issue. I'll attempt to make INP playback today.
  7. 03-06-2021, 04:53 PM
    YouTube link:

    00:22 Showing correlation of scores on MARP/TG
    00:50 Showing Matt Hall INP file and naming of INPs to RYGARJ (wrong rom set)
    01:28 Showing Francios Daniel INP file and naming of INPs to RYGARJ (wrong rom set) and incorrect submission score in TG
    03:00 Running Virtual Box Windows XP 32bit to run old 32bit MAME versions.
    04:00 Playback of Matt Hall INP file showing only runs in rygarj rom set as well only performace of 33,530 score.
    14:40 Playback of Francios Daniel INP file showing only runs in rygarj rom set
    23:08 Francios Daniel INP file showing final score of 5,882,150 which is 50 points different to what was entered into TG
    24:20 Playback of different Matt Hall INP file showing a rygar rom set playback, it is similar to the other INP where he plays a game of 28,210 score. No actual performance as per INP title.

    - Confirmed that the rygarj(Japanese)rom was used in the INP recording
    - Matt Hall INP files do not contain a full performance of the score indicated in any of the INPs tested, instead they are throw away games left recording for 9mb worth of file size.
    Thanks Garrett Holland thanked this post
  8. 03-06-2021, 05:42 PM
    I tried to playback Francios's INP in MAME 0.36 and it exhibited similar thing where the player dies off early. I now believe that MAME 0.36 has INP playback issues in general and Matt's performance is probably valid score, but as shown, on the wrong rom set.
  9. 03-07-2021, 10:40 AM
    Turns out that it's looking like a couple of bogus scores were submitted eother by the submitter or on his behalf. Very sneaky to play a crap game and then continue to let the INPs record for an hour. I wonder if the person who did that (which could have been anyone, tbh) for those two score believed that the "referees" or "moderators" wouldn't ever review the INP via playback.
  10. 03-07-2021, 01:14 PM
    Again, I think after more investigations that M.A.M.E. 0.36 has inp playback issues, both INPs displayed odd behaviour in 0.36. Francios Daniels inp played back fine in 0.37 which it was played/recorded in but wigs out if you play it in 0.36, which makes sense I guess cause it is a version later.

    Matt Halls inp plays back in both versions however was recorded in 0.36 and displays different gameplay in each. Both being early deaths and game end on round 1. Other inps of his from MARP recorded in 0.36 display similar gameplay.

    There must have been some pretty big issues with 0.36 I think that were rectified by 0.37, I can investigate that more today. However, even not seeing the full game if above is in fact the issue, the game is still invalid based on:

    - The rom set being incorrect
    - The settings being on easy

    Either of these
    Thanks Garrett Holland thanked this post
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