Questions Re: Grandfathered scores and - - Michael Olson

  1. Questions Re: Grandfathered scores and - - Michael Olson

    03-16-2021, 11:57 PM
    Hi everyone,

    I’m just wondering if someone can provide some clarification or a forum I can look to. (I may have missed seeing the info on these).

    1) I’ve noticed some duplicates of games and also under some, there’s no place to submit a score.
    I’ve noticed it seems to be ones that have “--Speedruns”. Just wondering why they are listed if we can’t submit to them.

    2) Could someone explain the “grandfathered” scores; I see on those that one shouldn’t submit a score; is there a reason as to why?

    I’ll use Super Mario 64 as the example.
    - I see two places to go for it, one that states “Nintendo 64” and the other “-- Speedruns” ; in this case for -- speedruns you can actually submit a score (I’ve found generally there isn’t that option).
    - “Most Coins” is stated as grandfathered.

    Thanks for any info/insight into my questions.

    Mike
  2. 03-18-2021, 12:06 PM
    I can supply some information on "grandfathering".

    There were several reasons for this term to be applied to scores or the specific game variation (track) that they were recorded under.

    Decades back there were a few specific "events" where special event rules for some of the titles involved were crafted just for that event, with the intent that TG would not be tracking further submissions under those specific conditions go-forward. While the reasoning for that largely pertained to the way that TG operated more than 15-20 years prior, such is not the case now and those pre-existing "grandfathered" variations (tracks) could likely have new submissions accepted.

    One of the other purposes had to do with some of TG's oldest score submissions from the first "incarnation/era" of TG which ended in 1987. Much of the submission documentation is long since gone and in some cases so are the associated competitors. Additionally, documentation on the specific settings used for certain title/variation (track) combinations was effectively lost thus it is a matter of guesswork as to what those settings might have been. For those reasons and perhaps more, a number of older scores are "grandfathered" into the TG database.

    There may be other reasons that exist, but there's no way to get a list of which such scores this would apply to. For example, suppose an older submission was accepted under the old TG rules which allowed for recorded music to be part of the submission. TG can't dump the score from the database years/decades later because in the here and now there are rules governing music as part of a submission. So something like that could, potentially, be another reason for a score to be "grandfathered" into the TG database.

    I'm only familiar with some reasons...there may be others.
    Thanks Garrett Holland, MikeTheMexican thanked this post
  3. 03-20-2021, 09:08 AM
    the speedrun platform imported tracks/rules from speedrun.com but not scores. This didnt go over well. The hopes was it would be seen as a bridge of sorts. TG speedrun rules dont allow bugs and other "spirit of the game" nonsense that real speedrunners dont like. by trackings speedrun style of play with tg style verification it seemed like a good idea but instead came off as offensive and plagiarism.

    both the speedrun and the guiness platform are no longer what they were meant to be, and while no track should be grandfathered anymore, sometimes in viewing these things you have to be aware they were created under assumptions that didnt hold up.
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
  4. 05-11-2021, 10:36 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    TG speedrun rules dont allow bugs and other "spirit of the game" nonsense that real speedrunners dont like.
    I wouldn't call it 'nonsense'. I've seen speed runs where all the person did was some menu gymnastics to complete a multi-hour game in like 10 seconds. Stuff like that is pointless to track for actual skill at a world record in my opinion.
  5. 05-11-2021, 10:42 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by FBX View Post
    I wouldn't call it 'nonsense'. I've seen speed runs where all the person did was some menu gymnastics to complete a multi-hour game in like 10 seconds. Stuff like that is pointless to track for actual skill at a world record in my opinion.
    understood, i'd call it nonsense, but obviously old tg refs wouldnt, theres room for opinion. i'd also point out its hardly just those cases tg ruled out, plenty of highly skilled highly respected glitch runs were also ruled out. On the bright side, those "pointless to track" things can be tracked, also the old way of no glitches are allowed, and anything in between. I have my suspicions which tracks will get the most competiton and respect.
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
  6. 05-11-2021, 11:07 PM
    Most people I have talked to don't like 'anything goes' speedruns specifically because of the scenario I mentioned. I know there can be exceptionally difficult speedruns that make use of glitches, but at best I would track then separate not allow them to be mingled with no-glitch world records.

    Also this opinion doesn't have anything to do with how old I am or my prior work with Twin Galaxies.
  7. 05-11-2021, 11:14 PM
    yes they should (and to the best of my knowledge correctly are) tracked differently. whether i like a rule or not, i agree all submissions should follow stated rules. so the more popular glitch allowed runs should never be merged with traditional tg no glitch tracks. you wont get an argument from me on the important of making new track for new rules and not merging apples with oranges. I know some people would like to see rules on some tracks updated, but i dont agree with that. to keep apples with apples rules need to stay the same and new tracks created for the new rules. only time i believve rules should be updated is when its undoing an update that shouldnt have happened (so i'd argue thats really not updating its removing an update), clarification that isnt a true change, a track with zero entries, rules that are impossible to follow due to contradictions for example so leaving as is just isnt possible, and verification method (I think demanding video instead of referree witness is still apples to apples as long as the rules of gameplay stay the same).
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
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