TG Crypto - Jace Hall

  1. TG Crypto - Jace Hall

    03-23-2021, 04:33 PM
    Attachment 126417
    Name:  TGCOIN.png
Views: 373
Size:  132.4 KB
    Twin Galaxies Coin has been registered and created (TGCOIN)!

    It is currently not being distributed, and will not be distributed or sold until the basis and rules of its existence are established.

    You will notice that 1 Billion TGCOIN has been created. This is all the TGCOIN there ever will be. No more can be minted.

    This thread is intended to start an ongoing conversation about TGCOIN and how it might be best put to use for the benefit of TG and its community.

    First, let's establish some of the simple and basic initial intentions behind the creation of the TG COIN.

    1.) It can potentially be used as a method for interested members of the gaming community to provide TG with monetary resource to improve and grow the site more quickly.

    Right now, TG's growth is limited by the amount of personal investment that the owners of TG make each month. There are no ads, and TG does not have subscription or membership fees. Ideally, TG would like to keep it that way.

    Being able to buy TG COIN may be a method for the community to directly support TG, as all proceeds will go directly to TG growth and improvements.

    It is important to highlight that many people have both publicly and privately signaled that they want to help support TG so that it can improve faster and offer more useful features to the community, however there is currently no way set up for the community to provide TG any direct financial support.

    2.) To create a basis and transactional vehicle of commerce for TG Community members to buy/sell the earned submission points or other eventual TG related value between each other. Also it can allow TG Community members to extract and "own" their earned submission point value outside of the TG system if they want to.

    3.) To create a token that not only represents value accrued at TG, but potentially value accrued in other gaming communities that may choose to use TG COIN for their purposes as well.

    Now with that stated, here is some current thinking on TG COIN allocation, scarcity, value, mechanics, etc., along with some of the perceived challenges:
    For starters, there are many things within TG that represent accrued value through human effort, but for the purposes of establishing the basics of TG COIN we want to start with just recognizing TWO of these things:

    - Achieving a TG World Record
    - Earning a Submission Point

    Again, these are two items that can only be created through human work effort. This is a very important distinction.

    Additionally, between these two items, achieving a TG World Record is the more rare occurrence. So we are going to focus on that.

    You will notice that there were 1 Billion TG COINS created, and while this represents the total repository of TG COIN, it does not represent TG's intention regarding how many TG COINS will be made available in circulation! TG will restrict TG COIN availability and amounts.

    The current thinking is that there can only be 100 TG COIN available for every single TG World Record that exists.

    This would mean that the way new TG COIN is ultimately "mined" is ONLY by the establishment of a new TG World Record.

    As we thought about this, we realized a problem in that since anyone can make a new track, and then submit and be #1 on that track, the "mining" could be easily manipulated, causing more TG COIN to be released artificially - therefore we would place the below constraint on it:

    100 TG COIN = 1 TG WORLD RECORD (at least 5 participants on leaderboard)

    Using that equation, and loosely glancing at our database, we seem to have roughly 58,106 TG WORLD RECORDS (min 5 ranks on leaderboard), so that means only 5,810,600 TG COIN would be made available in the marketplace.

    TG COIN in circulation would then always correspond to adjudicated TG WORLD RECORDS (at least 5 participants on leaderboard). The remaining TG COIN of the 1 Billion that were minted would stay off market in reserve for release when new TG WORLD RECORDS occur.

    So that might work toward a balanced system where scarcity and value is directly tied to human effort.

    With TG COIN potentially set up with a clear system of mining and management, it's important to figure out some of the basic ideas regarding what community members can do with TG COIN within TG itself....

    1.) Use TG COIN to purchase unique and authentic, NFT encoded TG merch, such as clothing, certificates and digital content.
    2.) Purchase TG COIN with Submission Points.
    3.) Win TG COIN in challenges, tournaments and bounties.

    Of course, the TG Community would theoretically also be able to receive the other benefits of an Ethereum based cryptocurrency, which can be market value appreciation and the ability to trade it for other crypto.

    Challenges

    A big challenge with using crypto are the costs that are incurred whenever it is transferred from one Wallet to another one. Those costs can be referred to as "Gas fees " and Gas fees are payments made by users to compensate for the computing energy required to process and validate transactions on the Ethereum blockchain.

    These fees as well as the slower paced nature of an ETH crypto transaction create a barrier for TG to be able to do something like eliminate Submission Points and simply replace them with TG COIN. So Submission Points will continue to remain, and the interested members of the community can choose to use them to purchase TG COIN (once TG implements that ability.)

    In any case, would love to hear the community thoughts and just have a general discussion of ideas before TG makes any final decisions in this matter!

    Let's see where the conversation goes.
    Thanks wwdkong thanked this post
  2. 03-23-2021, 05:13 PM
    I don't have any thoughts about how this should work yet, I want to digest it a bit, but I think this is pretty awesome and exciting.

    Nice work Jace and TG!
    Thanks Jace Hall thanked this post
  3. 03-23-2021, 05:40 PM
    my thoughts

    1. this is just nitpicky as i look for anyting i can to add. if the goal is to base coins in circulation on effort, rather than limit it to wr with more than 5 competitors why not all records (not to be confused with all world recods). a wr beating 10 people takes more effort than one beating 5. also second third and fourth and last place take effort to. maybe base it on all records, of course that would go with a much smaller multiplier as a result. against, this is nit picking, just trying to come up with anyting i can

    2. what can be bought of course is the real key. i very much look forward to seeing some cool options.

    3. for the merch, if sub points can buy coin, and coin can buy merch, why transfer twice? i'd love to avoid the gas tax and just spend the equivalent submission points directly, will that be possible?
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
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  4. 03-23-2021, 06:52 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post
    Attachment 126417
    Name:  TGCOIN.png
Views: 373
Size:  132.4 KB
    Twin Galaxies Coin has been registered and created (TGCOIN)!

    It is currently not being distributed, and will not be distributed or sold until the basis and rules of its existence are established.

    You will notice that 1 Billion TGCOIN has been created. This is all the TGCOIN there ever will be. No more can be minted.

    This thread is intended to start an ongoing conversation about TGCOIN and how it might be best put to use for the benefit of TG and its community.

    First, let's establish some of the simple and basic initial intentions behind the creation of the TG COIN.

    1.) It can potentially be used as a method for interested members of the gaming community to provide TG with monetary resource to improve and grow the site more quickly.

    Right now, TG's growth is limited by the amount of personal investment that the owners of TG make each month. There are no ads, and TG does not have subscription or membership fees. Ideally, TG would like to keep it that way.

    Being able to buy TG COIN may be a method for the community to directly support TG, as all proceeds will go directly to TG growth and improvements.

    It is important to highlight that many people have both publicly and privately signaled that they want to help support TG so that it can improve faster and offer more useful features to the community, however there is currently no way set up for the community to provide TG any direct financial support.

    2.) To create a basis and transactional vehicle of commerce for TG Community members to buy/sell the earned submission points or other eventual TG related value between each other. Also it can allow TG Community members to extract and "own" their earned submission point value outside of the TG system if they want to.

    3.) To create a token that not only represents value accrued at TG, but potentially value accrued in other gaming communities that may choose to use TG COIN for their purposes as well.

    Now with that stated, here is some current thinking on TG COIN allocation, scarcity, value, mechanics, etc., along with some of the perceived challenges:
    For starters, there are many things within TG that represent accrued value through human effort, but for the purposes of establishing the basics of TG COIN we want to start with just recognizing TWO of these things:

    - Achieving a TG World Record
    - Earning a Submission Point

    Again, these are two items that can only be created through human work effort. This is a very important distinction.

    Additionally, between these two items, achieving a TG World Record is the more rare occurrence. So we are going to focus on that.

    You will notice that there were 1 Billion TG COINS created, and while this represents the total repository of TG COIN, it does not represent TG's intention regarding how many TG COINS will be made available in circulation! TG will restrict TG COIN availability and amounts.

    The current thinking is that there can only be 100 TG COIN available for every single TG World Record that exists.

    This would mean that the way new TG COIN is ultimately "mined" is ONLY by the establishment of a new TG World Record.

    As we thought about this, we realized a problem in that since anyone can make a new track, and then submit and be #1 on that track, the "mining" could be easily manipulated, causing more TG COIN to be released artificially - therefore we would place the below constraint on it:

    100 TG COIN = 1 TG WORLD RECORD (at least 5 participants on leaderboard)

    Using that equation, and loosely glancing at our database, we seem to have roughly 58,106 TG WORLD RECORDS (min 5 ranks on leaderboard), so that means only 5,810,600 TG COIN would be made available in the marketplace.

    TG COIN in circulation would then always correspond to adjudicated TG WORLD RECORDS (at least 5 participants on leaderboard). The remaining TG COIN of the 1 Billion that were minted would stay off market in reserve for release when new TG WORLD RECORDS occur.

    So that might work toward a balanced system where scarcity and value is directly tied to human effort.

    With TG COIN potentially set up with a clear system of mining and management, it's important to figure out some of the basic ideas regarding what community members can do with TG COIN within TG itself....

    1.) Use TG COIN to purchase unique and authentic, NFT encoded TG merch, such as clothing, certificates and digital content.
    2.) Purchase TG COIN with Submission Points.
    3.) Win TG COIN in challenges, tournaments and bounties.

    Of course, the TG Community would theoretically also be able to receive the other benefits of an Ethereum based cryptocurrency, which can be market value appreciation and the ability to trade it for other crypto.

    Challenges

    A big challenge with using crypto are the costs that are incurred whenever it is transferred from one Wallet to another one. Those costs can be referred to as "Gas fees " and Gas fees are payments made by users to compensate for the computing energy required to process and validate transactions on the Ethereum blockchain.

    These fees as well as the slower paced nature of an ETH crypto transaction create a barrier for TG to be able to do something like eliminate Submission Points and simply replace them with TG COIN. So Submission Points will continue to remain, and the interested members of the community can choose to use them to purchase TG COIN (once TG implements that ability.)

    In any case, would love to hear the community thoughts and just have a general discussion of ideas before TG makes any final decisions in this matter!

    Let's see where the conversation goes.
    there's alot of records here i could go after, but choose not to because if I spend too much on a disc, I'm eating ramen for the next month., but if there's a disc thats a bit outside my comfort zone price wise, but i know i could score a wr and get some crypto and eventually help defray the cost, grabbing that disc a bit outside my comfort zone price wise suddenly becomes a bit easier to rationalize. Depending on how many members are in a similar position, I could see a crypto done well contributing to a more diverse leaderboard, which would only serve twin Galaxies well in the long run.
    Likes Jace Hall liked this post
  5. 03-23-2021, 08:54 PM
    My thoughts:

    1. If you release X number of coins based on a formula (number of world records) then a value can be placed on the currency, or at least the number of released coins can be used as one of the variables in calculating the value. If at a later date you decide to release more coins (for any reason) then you have just devalued the previously released coins.

    One of the benefits of Bitcoin is that there is a fine number of coins (21,000,000) although they are not yet in circulation. The effort to mine them grows exponentially, as does the technology behind the mining efforts. This provides some stability to the market as coins are introduced almost at a predetermined rate.

    Knowing that a billion coins are waiting to be pulled into existence like Aiuas (Aiúas from Ender's game) is a little off-putting to me. Hyperinflation is a real threat.

    2. New record holders that meet a criteria would get a coin for achieving the top spot. If that spot is beaten, does the new person get a TG coin? That in itself should spawn some competition.

    3. Ethereum 1.0 gas prices on the Ethereum network are well over $100 per transaction. How will Twin Galaxy avoid those kinds of fees? Ethereum 2.0 is moving to "proof of stake" which will reward processors who stake 36 Ether (approx $75,000 USD) as opposed to rewarding miners. Mining Ethereum will be a think of the past if this goes forward, making the system far more efficient and planet friendly.

    4. I am very much in favor of NFTs and other digital assets. Sadly my own investigation was cut short by a gas fee of $134.

    I look forward to researching and helping out as much as I can.


    4.
    Your friend, datagod
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/album.php?albumid=73
    ~~Raspberry Pi Enthusiast~~
  6. 03-24-2021, 04:57 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by datagod View Post
    2. New record holders that meet a criteria would get a coin for achieving the top spot. If that spot is beaten, does the new person get a TG coin? That in itself should spawn some competition.
    As a follow-up to this, Will one be rewarded is they beat one of their own current WRs? will there be anything in place to prevent sandbag-mining?

    Here is an example with a few questions-

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/tr...-color/page/1/

    for the 110 meter hurdles, there are currently 4 submissions...if I submit any score, that will create a 5 submission board.

    1) Let's say my first submission is the first place time, will the system award me with TG Coin, or would the next person submitting be the one to get it (does the board need to have 5 preexisting competitors)?

    2) This is asked above, but let's say I'm the first place time, if I beat my time, will I be awarded TG Coin?

    3) Will there be a limit to how often I can beat my time and receive TG Coin? In the above scenario, let's say I submit a score of 11.65 for first place. Then I spend a bit of time each day running the event (a roughly 30 second endeavor for each playthrough) and I put together a fastest time of say 11.20, but have 25 different times that range between 11.21 and 11.64. Is there anything in place to stop my from submitting each of those from slowest to fastest and receiving TG Coin for each one? - I submit 11.64, it passes, I submit 11.63, it passes, I submit 11.62, it passes....etc... I know work was put behind each time, but done even by a handful of folks over a relatively short period of time (a year or two), it seems like that could potentially devalue TG Coin pretty severely?

    Sorry if I'm getting into the weeds with these questions, this is just what I started thinking about in relation to datagod's comment above and concerns about inflation
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  7. 03-24-2021, 07:18 AM
    another thought occurs, wording was number of wr that are on tracks with 5 or more competitors, as opposed to number of existing tracks with 5 or more competitors. That wording is important, cause the only time the two are different are maxouts. are you saying an easy game with a dozen world records on it, all tied as maxouts should each generate another coin?
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
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  8. 04-06-2021, 10:50 AM
    vzaar-player


    Hello. More thoughts on TG COIN and further clarification.

    1.) Achieving a world record would not award a player with a TG COIN.

    For clarity - The number of TG COINS that are allowed to be in the circulating supply will be dictated by the number of TG World Records that exist in the database (TG World Records that have a minimum of 5 competitors on the leaderboard.)

    So for example, let's say that there are a total of 100 TG World Records that qualify to be counted. That would mean there would be100,000 TG Coins allowed to exist in the circulating supply (1 TG World Record = 1000 TG COINS released into the economy)

    *please keep in mind that no final decision has been made as to how many TG COINS = 1 TG World Record - the above is an example for illustrative purposes. It was also mentioned in a previous post that 100 TG COIN = 1 TG World Record... Again, this is all undecided at this time.

    The main point is that TG would be limiting the circulating supply by directly correlating it to qualified world record achievement. It will control scarcity, and mining coin becomes a function of "proof of human effort" and can not be artificially generated. It is all public.
    @datagod - Hopefully this helps you understand that there can be no artificial inflationary risk associated with the 2 Billion coin total, as the only coin allowed into circulation must correspond to the public TG WR count. The 2 Billion is simply the finite amount of TG coin that could ever exist and is held in reserve off the market to fulfill the minting process generated by new TG World Records.

    2.) Gas fees can not be avoided. Any TG COIN transaction that takes place will incur a gas fee (processing fee) until ETH can improve in that area. TG COIN is ETH based. Knowing this, TG is thinking about all the ways to minimize TG COIN transaction (keeping things as submission points for example) until absolutely necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    another thought occurs, wording was number of wr that are on tracks with 5 or more competitors, as opposed to number of existing tracks with 5 or more competitors. That wording is important, cause the only time the two are different are maxouts. are you saying an easy game with a dozen world records on it, all tied as maxouts should each generate another coin?
    No. A better way of thinking about this is that once a leaderboard has at least 5 competitors, that leaderboard will generate TG COIN to be placed into the economy, and then every time someone beats the #1 position on that leaderboard, more coin will be generated each time.

    Since submissions require the use of submission points and each submission requires successful adjudication, there is no easy way to generate TG COIN without human effort being put into doing so - and this again supports the "proof of effort" paradigm of the TG COIN scarcity.

    Inflation can be controlled by increasing cost of submission, and cost of leaderboard creation.

    ***IMPORTANT IDEA BELOW - PLEASE READ***

    We've been thinking more and more on the best way to roll out TG COIN for the benefit of the community and here are the current thoughts.

    - Before TG COIN can be purchase by anyone, there is an exclusive period where TG MEMBERS with SUBMISSION POINTS are allowed to convert their submission points to TG COIN under some conversion ratio. TG Members would need to pay the gas fees on the coin transfer but they would be able to get their hands on TG COIN before anyone else.

    -After the initial conversion period closes, TG COIN would be priced for public purchase made available on the market via an exchange. (ICO)

    -As part of the ICO TG would have established more utility, both on site (perhaps in the form of a store with merch and also the re-establishment of certificates), and perhaps offsite (in the form of some business partnerships where the coin can be used.)

    Obviously these items will take some time, but does the above make sense as some basic steps?

    Would love any feedback that is provided.
  9. 04-06-2021, 01:59 PM
    How about those team submissions supported by the TG database. How is that coming?
  10. 04-06-2021, 02:50 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by timmell View Post
    How about those team submissions supported by the TG database. How is that coming?
    Would love to know this too. This is base functionality for a high score site and the way it's implemented sucks.
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