Atari 2600 / VCS - Indy 500 / Race - NTSC - Game 02, Difficulty B - 18 - Cadence Utterback

Is this Performance Claim Valid?

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  1. Atari 2600 / VCS - Indy 500 / Race - NTSC - Game 02, Difficulty B - 18 - Cadence Utterback

    04-03-2021, 10:54 PM

    NTSC - Game 02, Difficulty B

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    Submission Message
    Hello, Twin Galaxies!
    I believe I have achieved a new world record in Game 2, Difficulty B of Indy 500/Race for the Atari 2600. I have achieved this new record using a trick that I call "Cade's Cut" (in which you drive around to the top of the middle section and begin circling inside that section) in order to skip laps and achieve a new, world-record score of 18 laps.
    I have provided a video containing my attempts for Game 2, Difficulty B as well as Difficulty A (which I will also submit separately).
    0:11-0:43 - I show the game and console.
    1:27 - I start my attempts.
    1:20-2:45 - I achieve a score of 16 laps.
    3:50-4:53 - I achieve a score of 17 laps. (This happens 5 more times.)
    13:55 - I discover something that makes the lap skip trick even easier.
    16:57-18:00 - I achieve a score of 18 laps! Hopefully a new world record!
    The rest of the video contains my attempts at Game 2, Difficulty A. Please disregard that portion for now.

    Thank you all for your consideration!
    -Cade Utterback

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Game2DifficultyBScore18.png  
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  2. 04-03-2021, 11:14 PM
    I apologize for the second half of the video having my attempts for Difficulty A, but I didn't know that it would take me a little bit longer to have enough points and credibility to submit that second half as a separate record. As soon as I'm able, though, I'll be submitting this again for my Difficulty A record submission.

    Regardless, if you're wondering what's happening in my attempts that causes the game to skip laps, here's my best guess at what is actually happening:

    In my attempts, I utilize a trick that I call "Cade's Cut" to effectively skip laps faster than just driving around the course as normal. By establishing your position above the lap counting line on the top side of the middle section you can sometimes circle around in the middle section to skip laps. I'm not sure why this happens, but it can prove to be really effective at getting higher lap counts than previously submitted here and across the internet in general. I have yet to see this trick documented in a video, although I have seen vague references to it on Gamefaqs and some other site where the Gamefaqs text was likely copied from, or vise versa.

    I have developed 3 different ways to trigger the effect, but in the middle of this video I actually manage to find what is (so far) the best way to do so. You cannot skip laps by simply driving into the middle section and circling from there - the game will not count your laps. However, by completing half a lap, then bumping into the top portion of the middle section, and then finally driving in a circle, you can accumulate laps as you hit a certain point while circling, as seen in the video. Utilizing this technique, which I believe to have been a developer oversight more than anything, I clearly achieve a score of 18 in Game 2, Difficulty B. This is a really easy trick to learn and I hope to achieve a 19 or maybe even a 20 in the future, but for now, let's see if the 18 can prove worthy for this record.

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  3. 04-04-2021, 12:44 AM
    First welcome to TG hope you enjoy your time here.

    Nice job on demonstrating and exploiting a flaw in the game.
    Unfortunately this type of glitch or flaw isn't allowed.
    The intent and spirit of the game is to try and follow the track without crashing or slowing down and trying to get the best lap count.

    I'm going to be voting no.

    Please don't be discouraged by this and try submitting with a new attempt that follows the spirit of the game.
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  4. 04-04-2021, 12:58 AM
    Hi, Cade! Thank you for submitting! Great trick! Unfortunately, this is not the first time this trick has been used at TG (and elsewhere) on this game and many other racing games. The reason you only see a current high score of 12 on this track is because previous submissions using shortcuts, achieving much higher lap counts have been summarily rejected, due these types of shortcuts violating one of TG's main principles as laid out in the Guidelines:

    Quote Originally Posted by "TwinGalaxies Global Rules & Guidelines
    The use of "glitches" or "glitch tactics" that defeat the generally accepted understanding of the spirit of the game / or reasonable interpretation of the intention of the game's designers are disallowed as a general rule. Specific track rules can explicitly override this general rule.
    With that being said, here is the good news. We can create an "ALL TACTICS" track for you that explicitly allows shortcuts (and any other tactics), which will supersede/override the Global Rules. Let me know!

    This is a great achievement, but I'm going to have to vote no.
  5. 04-04-2021, 12:59 AM
    Here's a link to the Global Rules & Guidelines, for reference.
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  6. 04-04-2021, 01:34 AM
    Sweet trick, Cade!
    Welcome to TG, and have a great time!

    Voting "no"..
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  7. 04-04-2021, 04:53 AM
    I personally hate that this has to be a "No" vote, I'm a believer in "if the programmer screwed up, it's NOT my fault", but truly, this precedent has always been in place.

    Like Garrett mentioned, plenty of people here will help you get a track started where you CAN submit it, just not to the "standard" track.

    Very neat, Man, I promise, I LIKE it, you bent the game to your will, very cool regardless!
    So they say
    Dance for me, dance for me, dance for me, oh, oh, oh
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  8. 04-04-2021, 06:21 AM
    honestly i'd love to vote yes because you taught us something amazing, very impressive. glitches are against the rules unless expliclty allowed as stated by others.

    still this should be preserved for posterity. If you'd like, i could create a new track for this that explicitly allows glitches and you could submit there
    Lode Runner Champion
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  9. 04-04-2021, 06:21 AM
    oops lol i scanned fast to see others pointed out the glitch rule i missed garrett alraedy offered the new track
    Lode Runner Champion
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  10. 04-04-2021, 07:23 AM
    Man, don't let this run you off, PLEASE.

    This might be the type thing that some perceive as the "negativity" that you may hear comes from TG, but if you really read, you can tell-there are several serious "regulars" chiming in here, and we are all obviously impressed/kinda tickled to see it.

    It just doesn't quite fit the ruleset that is defined, again as Garrett pointed out, the "magic" is, we can start tracks for about anything we want to(I'm the blindfolded Dragster dude, haha...), and as Snowflake pointed out, I too would like to see it preserved for posterity.

    Anything we can do to encourage you, Man, I think you can see, we are willing to do.

    Expending on what I said earlier-Man, I LOVE to "break" games, have done so several times in my time here-sometimes is a "glitch" issue, sometimes not, but I actually typically will note on my submission, "I'm not sure if I "played fair" here", and then I wait for community concensus.
    It's NEVER a worry to me, if even my best Bro's point out something "uncool", as I know that I don't know everything, noone does.

    Ya, shoot-new Atari folks are always especially welcome, you'll meet some GREAT folks here, I promise you.
    So they say
    Dance for me, dance for me, dance for me, oh, oh, oh
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