Dispute: Jason Vasiloff - M.A.M.E. - Metal Slug - Super Vehicle-001 - Points [Single Player Only] - Player: Jorge Gutierrez - Jason Vasiloff

Is this a valid dispute?

    This poll is closed
This poll is closed
  1. Dispute: Jason Vasiloff - M.A.M.E. - Metal Slug - Super Vehicle-001 - Points [Single Player Only] - Player: Jorge Gutierrez - Jason Vasiloff

    04-13-2021, 10:30 AM
    M.A.M.E. - Metal Slug - Super Vehicle-001 - Points [Single Player Only]
    Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=11953
    Rank

    Rules
    ROMSet: MSlug
    Hero: 3
    Continue: Off/Without
    Difficulty: Level 4
    Play Time: 60
    Blood: ON or Off
    Play Manual: ON
    Credit/Level: ON/ON
    Language: English
    Special Rules: This is a Single Player ONLY Variation! Continues are NOT allowed!
    Player Name
    Jorge Gutierrez
    Original Adjudication
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php?t=218075
    Verification Method
    TGSAP
    Verification Date
    2021-04-01
    Disputed Score
    3,379,280 (Rank 1)
    Disputed By
    JasonV91
    Dispute Evidence / Rationale
    The .inp attached does NOT play back to the submitted score - the final score for this performance should be 3,235,690.

    This submission is a good reminder that the video attached to a MAME performance means next to nothing as far as verification goes - the true proof comes from the .inp.

    (Trying to attach screen shots from the playback of the .inp, but the site is saying I don't have permission...will try in a response below.)
  2. 04-13-2021, 10:34 AM
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  3. 04-13-2021, 12:29 PM
    Could the issue be because of using a different bios. I remember seeing this score at MARP and whoever confirmed it over there said something about the bios. I know that I couldn't even get it to play back past the first couple of stages. The player put in a big effort to score this with maxing the timer on most stages, too bad they didn't make the simple effort to play it in a more modern version of mame.
  4. 04-13-2021, 05:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by redelf View Post
    Could the issue be because of using a different bios. I remember seeing this score at MARP and whoever confirmed it over there said something about the bios. I know that I couldn't even get it to play back past the first couple of stages. The player put in a big effort to score this with maxing the timer on most stages, too bad they didn't make the simple effort to play it in a more modern version of mame.
    The inputs for this .inp sync up exactly through the entirety of the recording - there are no inputs in the recording after the initials are entered, so I can't see this being a BIOS issue. Even if it WERE simply due to a different BIOS being used, that would be an instant rejection as well, since the TG global MAME rules list the following:

    "For games that have a BIOS file, [Neo Geo, for example] please leave the Bios settings at the default settings. [Configurable in the GUI versions] If ever there is a game that DOES require a change from this, information will specifically be provided in the game track rules settings."

    This is simply a case of an .inp from a different performance being attached to the submission.
  5. 04-13-2021, 05:48 PM
    Oh so not a playback issue. The issue is that it's the wrong inp.

    Can we just resolve the issue with attaching the inp from MARP.
    nge_mslug_3379280_wolf106.zip
  6. 04-13-2021, 05:49 PM
    Wouldn't want people to get penalized for something that is easily fixed.
  7. 04-13-2021, 09:12 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by redelf View Post
    Oh so not a playback issue. The issue is that it's the wrong inp.

    Can we just resolve the issue with attaching the inp from MARP.
    nge_mslug_3379280_wolf106.zip
    Quote Originally Posted by redelf View Post
    Wouldn't want people to get penalized for something that is easily fixed.
    Problem is, that wouldn't be fair, because people who correctly voted no on this submission (like myself) were already penalized when they shouldn't have been.

    This one seems about as straightforward as it can be - reject the score, and reverse the cred changes.
    Likes D.B. Cooper liked this post
  8. 04-13-2021, 09:27 PM
    as jason points out, people get "penalized" no matter, just a matter of who. but as i bring up alot, a cred ding or boost isnt a reward/penalty. your cred doesnt help you, your cred helps the system work to make sure right decisoins happen in the future. The best thing for everyone is if the best adjudicators have the most cred. We're all penalized when voting power (credibility) isnt properly distributed to those who most deserve the additonal voting power

    Also i checked the original adjudication jason even warned people
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    so at that point, anyone who voted without analysis were failry warned of the issues and did so anyway.

    hey i made the mistake before, and i learned my lesson. I even made a wall post, good intentioned, of encouraging people to vote without inp analysis as i mistook it for a formality and i believe both jason and almighty dreadlock quickly pointed out my error. if people dont get a cred hit, then they'll feel safe to go on ignoring jason's warnings and pushing more and more bad subs through.
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
    Likes D.B. Cooper, RedDawn liked this post
  9. 04-13-2021, 09:40 PM
    This seems counterproductive to the entire community. As a whole the community is trying to do the right thing and clear up the que. Jace made it clear that voting to accept a submission without an inp analysis would be ok to do as the analysis could be done later. This seems to be a good example of that not being the case. If people knew that the inp wasn't the same as the provided video they should have shared that information with the rest of the community. I try to make an effort to point out errors to the community if I find something wrong with a submission.

    Now to get the community to vote that this is a bad submission is going to be hard to do. You got those that don't want to lose credibility and therefore will not vote so they can retain their points. Of course that kind of logic is flawed and this dispute will be accepted once proof of the wrong inp is provided.

    What if TG gets involved and now says that the evidence has now been provided by the inp I supplied and says that this dispute is now invalid.

    All efforts should be made to inform the community of errors or concerns in submissions. Looking back I should have voiced my concerns and notified the community of what I had learned by trying to do the inp analysis and the info obtained from MARP.

    I'm not trying to blame you or anyone else for this submission not being flagged for errors and being accepted. I see it as something to learn from and maybe helping people to make better decisions or choices down the road.
    Likes wwdkong liked this post
  10. 04-13-2021, 10:15 PM
    As far as self analysis. I believe that doing your own is fine. Every track or system that games are played on and need settings and such to be shown are the sole responsibility of the submitter. You are trusting that they are showing you the machine or system that they are playing on. You trust that they are showing you the hardware and software that you see to be the actual hardware and software they are playing on.

    In my self analysis I try to show via video and screenshot that the game is on the correct settings. This can be determined by using the F11 key that shows current frame count and the recorded speed that the game was recorded at. I show the settings using the " -iv 1" in the command line so that you can use the DELETE key to show them. Being recorded in wolfmame I believe it means that NVRAM can't be used. I believe I make the best effort and show enough evidence that everything can be determined to be correct.

    Now that I stated all the above I realize the two flaws in my statements.
    1. The inp can't be verified to be the correct one without someone else testing it.
    2. The inp can't be known to playback correctly on someone else's computer.

    Just great also as I have around 25 mame submissions with self analysis already done just waiting to be submitted. In the future I will no longer be doing my own analysis.

    Left all the above incase someone else had the same beliefs or flaws in their understanding of the need for others to analyze.
    Thanks evan04 thanked this post
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