Post Verdict Dispute - Robert T Mruczek - Kaboom (2600) - 999,999

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  1. 07-02-2021, 06:53 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark View Post
    NO ONE in those days had to have their score approved by "others" . You sent your recording to a ref and they approved it. Sometimes the ref would ask other refs(or forum members) for advice if it was borderline. (not often)

    So, what's the difference between a Ref losing his no paid worth nothing job with TG and you and me losing our worth nothing credibility on TG? I haven't seen an instance of a former ref saying they lost their job because someone(another ref) pressured them into sticking up for dodgy scores (Disregard the DK cheats sh*t)

    Regarding MAME. INP's WERE posted beside the score in those days if you wanted them to be. I can't remember if Rob ever had the INP's attached to his scores. It doesn't matter though because NO ONE had to have recordings posted.

    Maybe TG shouldn't have let Refs post scores, but lets face it, who TF would do such a job putting up with complaining NERDS except another nerd that enjoyed watching and putting up scores.

    Rob may have made mistakes. So what! You NERDS clean it up just like a future generation HAS TO CLEAN up the mess that we(not me) are creating now. For example, "Oh gee, I'll vote accept because if somethings wrong the recording it is still there and someone might find whats wrong in 50 fkn years.

    Nothings changed. Some refs/adjudicators are still kissing each others a*rse holes! AND, TG is letting them get away with it.


    john

    .
    you know what, close enough. i disagree with plenty here, but enough is close enough that this is the closest we're coming to agreement.
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
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  2. 07-02-2021, 06:58 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark View Post
    Rob self entered hundreds of MAME scores, BUT, that was common knowledge, he said himself that he did it. Something to do with the old data base needing an entry to become live.
    The first I heard of a ref entering their own scores was in the early 2000s, when Mruczek made a passing comment about Corcoran self-entering his scores. At the time, I said all of Corcoran's scores should be removed or at least marked as unverified (Mruczek refused to do anything). Mruczek never mentioned doing that himself or allowing other refs (including Rogers) to do it. That knowledge came years later, along with the excuse self-entering was the only way for them to handle the backlog of submissions. IIRC my advice at the time was to limit submissions, such as only accepting submissions if the score would be in the top-5 for that game/track. That advice was also ignored. Meanwhile, you had Mruczek, Duncan, Rogers, and a few others just piling on the score submissions for themselves.

    Jump to 2017, and Mruczek made a formal request to remove all of Corcoran's scores:

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/178060

    One of the reasons he offered for that was this nugget:

    "Additionally, anecdotal evidence suggests that this former Twin Galaxies referee entered one or more of his own scores into the Twin Galaxies database which were the direct result of cheating, a further breach of trust."
    Well, in this case, we don't have anecdotal evidence of Mruczek self-entering scores. We have him confessing he did it. If self-entering scores is a valid reason to remove someone's scores (which it damn well should be), then Mruczek's scores need to be removed as well. Mruczek's comment implies self-entering is only invalid if the score is proven to be derived from cheating. I say self-entering a score is cheating. Doesn't matter if it's a first-place score or a last-place one. The fact that it's in the database w/o any evidence to support it corrupts the database. I also remember him saying he created new entries for games, even if nobody was submitting scores for them. But he didn't create scores of 0 for himself, did he?

    Yes, the vast majority of 'legacy' scores in the database exist w/o any evidence to support them, and Mruczek and others claimed to have removed a portion of them. But you can't have a pick-and-choose approach with that, and Mruczek most certainly did. If he personally thought a score was 'impossible' or was set with an emulator, he decided how to handle it based on his opinion and nothing else. He personally relabeled some of my previously verified (by video) scores as emulators simply because he felt certain games were "too rare" for me to possibly own! He wiped out the entire NES section of the database because he thought most of them came from Nintendo Power magazine (so in effect, 'throwing out the baby with the bathwater'). The NES section was later restored, but not everything he did was. It's common knowledge he wiped out some VCS tracks because he felt they weren't worth tracking. There are some I don't track on my site for the same reason, but my site isn't the 'Official Scoreboard for Video Games'.
    Last edited by Scott S.; 07-02-2021 at 07:02 AM.
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  3. 07-02-2021, 07:26 AM
    scott, i think theres a yuge difference between you not tracking certain games you dont feel are worthy, compared to tg for years tracking them, then throwing them out. especially when even easier games like mash remains. i couldnt help but to notice the super easy games that remaind either have refs or friends of ref to be first to get the maxout, but the games with easy maxouts not like that got nuked, and mind you dodge 'em is nowhere near as easy as M*A*S*H, not even close. mash is maxable on the very first try. so i appreciate you're honest, but its not the same.

    also the fact those tracks were later reinstated, but with no scores by the next iteration of tg shows that both prior and later tg felt the tracks were worthy, but cause one person didnt, boom, years of legacy wiped out of existence. to destroy tg history like that seems like the decision shouldnt have been taken so lightly and quickly.

    remember there was literaly a missile command alternate track created with the express purpose of harassing roy. by having a second track, the track creator could quickly get in, get any low score and then claim to be the missile command world champion. far be it from me to comlain about alternate tracks, but when its admitted BRAGGED to be created solely to harass roy, while at the same time other tracks being wiped out for not being worthy enough, you start to see how biased petty and vindicative old tg was
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
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  4. 07-02-2021, 12:34 PM
    Not going to respond to Stilphen's latest BS with further info.

    Stilphen paints a partial picture of the self-entry days, cherry-picking anything that suits his agenda, ignoring the rest. He beats the war drums on self entry but leaves out how at one point there were only about four referees available to do so. He leaves out the why behind certain self-entries while lumping all of them together as one huge "cheat".

    I'm sure he is going to jump all over this as he has been, citing quote after quote. Seriously, he needs a shrink as he is OCD-obsessed with this going on 18 years now. It's his self-appointed personal mission in life to bash old TG, myself and a few others in particular. And he is going to no doubt keep beating these war drums until he has his way for trollish satisfaction...and to what end ? He has accomplished nothing, and will accomplish nothing. In fact the only way his endgame will happen is if he purchases TG itself and engage in the ultimate revisionism by deleting pre-TGSAP in the entirety.

    Seriously. Stilphen...go see a shrink, and not just for a single session.
  5. 07-02-2021, 12:40 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    remember there was literaly a missile command alternate track created with the express purpose of harassing roy. by having a second track, the track creator could quickly get in, get any low score and then claim to be the missile command world champion. far be it from me to comlain about alternate tracks, but when its admitted BRAGGED to be created solely to harass roy, while at the same time other tracks being wiped out for not being worthy enough, you start to see how biased petty and vindicative old tg was


    RTM REPLY - you have your timelines messed up here.

    The track created exclusively to pester Roy was the one I created AFTER leaving TG and AFTER TGSAP was created. It was the "Highest Points Per Missile Challenge" or something like that. Rules were simple...no more than three (3) missiles could be used per missile base. In all other respects played at marathon settings.

    This was made at the time when Roy no longer could get the TGTS record nor the marathon record so he started pushing this 100 wave challenge claiming it was a higher quality of game play. Might have even submitted his accomplishment to Guinness. So during that time I created this variation in the TGSAP era. I was no longer a TG staffer. Had no correlation to tracks being removed.

    The track was fully funded...my own points. Some people have created a variety of 1st life tracks. There is even a DK record for most fireballs smashed while falling down a hole. My MC track is no different than those, but a little more substantial than that DK record just mentioned.
  6. 07-02-2021, 02:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    Not going to respond to Stilphen's latest BS with further info...

    ...he is going to no doubt keep beating these war drums until he has his way for trollish satisfaction...

    ...go see a shrink...
    You have nothing else to say except the same crap over and over.
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  7. 07-02-2021, 02:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    He beats the war drums on self entry but leaves out how at one point there were only about four referees available to do so.
    There should of been ZERO refs able to self enter scores. I get that back in the day a single score had to be submitted for the track to go live but the logic and fair thing to do would of been to enter a score of 0 like Scott said.
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  8. 07-02-2021, 02:30 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    RTM REPLY - you have your timelines messed up here.

    The track created exclusively to pester Roy was the one I created AFTER leaving TG and AFTER TGSAP was created. It was the "Highest Points Per Missile Challenge" or something like that. Rules were simple...no more than three (3) missiles could be used per missile base. In all other respects played at marathon settings.

    This was made at the time when Roy no longer could get the TGTS record nor the marathon record so he started pushing this 100 wave challenge claiming it was a higher quality of game play. Might have even submitted his accomplishment to Guinness. So during that time I created this variation in the TGSAP era. I was no longer a TG staffer. Had no correlation to tracks being removed.

    The track was fully funded...my own points. Some people have created a variety of 1st life tracks. There is even a DK record for most fireballs smashed while falling down a hole. My MC track is no different than those, but a little more substantial than that DK record just mentioned.
    Scott needs to see a shrink? I think you do with your weird obsession of Roy. What was the point of doing all of this? To try and anger a guy that isn't even here and has no intentions of being on this site? Fkn weird dude.
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  9. 07-02-2021, 02:46 PM
    The backlog of submissions wasn't an issue until Mruczek became chief ref. So how much did him adding all those new tracks contribute to that problem? And how many of those tracks were ultimately unnecessary? There were threads discussing that very issue back then, that of course went nowhere (because Mruczek made sure of that). I also remember recommending limiting the number of tracks per title to like 3, but there were games that had a half-dozen or more tracks for them. VCS Circus Atari has 8 tracks for it alone. Or look at VCS Skiing - there's 5 pages of tracks for it! The only people who could create tracks back then were the refs (and despite Mruczek's latest assumption nonsense, there were more than 4 refs).
  10. 07-02-2021, 03:02 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark View Post
    I'm not taking sides, just some info.

    Rob self entered hundreds of MAME scores, BUT, that was common knowledge, he said himself that he did it. Something to do with the old data base needing an entry to become live.

    Anyway, this self entry BS is still happening today. For example, what do you call it when someone gets a score rejected because the settings were wrong, then creates another track where the rules/settings match the REJECTED score! Thats self entry, isnt it.

    What about when a player is too lazy or cant be bothered to play on the right settings and when questioned runs of to admin(Dave) and crys for the rules to be changed to accommodate their incompetence. That's self entry, Isn't it.

    Just saying.

    Carry on.

    john

    .
    It’s not the same as putting in your own high scores or having your buddy as ref, but it’s still lame. Seems like they’re trying to devalue high scores by setting WR on trivial tracks.
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