Dispute: Juan Torres - Arcade - The Fast and the Furious - Hollywood - Player: Gary A Hatt - Juan Torres

Is this a valid dispute?

    This poll is closed
This poll is closed
  1. Dispute: Juan Torres - Arcade - The Fast and the Furious - Hollywood - Player: Gary A Hatt - Juan Torres

    07-06-2021, 01:46 PM
    Arcade - The Fast and the Furious - Hollywood
    Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=17061
    Rank

    Rules
    Factory Settings are required.
    Note:From the Utilities Menu, select Default Adjustment and enter. Performing Default Adjustment setting will restore game adjustments back to its manufacturer recommended settings.
    Player score is based on single play against the computer.
    Driver can choose any vehicle.
    No upgrades.
    Game Difficulty: #5.
    Start Bonus Time: 80 seconds.
    Check Point Bonus Time: 30 seconds.
    Speed measured in MPH.
    Wheel Stiffness Factor: 0.20
    Player Name
    Gary A Hatt
    Original Adjudication
    N/A
    Verification Method
    Referee
    Verification Date
    2005-12-01
    Disputed Score
    01:34.74 (Rank 1)
    Disputed By
    JJT_Defender
    Dispute Evidence / Rationale
    01:34.74 It is a Twin Galaxies referee input error mistake on the race time, the race time should be 1:54.74.
    Gary Hatt times are not comparable to other times which are much slower than the first place times set by David Lowe the differences are as much as 20 seconds.
    My expert experience says it cannot be done on The Fast and the Furious unless using a mega turbo glitch off objects that propel a players vehicle up 1000mph.
    It can be done playing on The Fast and Furious Tokyo Drift or Fast and Furious Super Cars / Super Cars.

    Here are some examples of Gary Hatt race times there is a huge difference from 1st place race times and his race times.

    1. Malibu FOUNDED BY: TWIN GALAXIES ;View Rules View All Submissions Rank 1 David Lowe Date Submitted: 2006-10-12 Percent: 100 % Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:35.97
    Rank 2 Rocky Palmisano Date Submitted: 2021-07-03 Percent: 90.95%
    Verification Method: IN PROCESS Status: Vote
    Elapsed Time 01:45.52
    Rank 3 RedDawn Date Submitted: 2021-05-10 Percent: 89.65%
    Verification Method: TGSAP Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:47.05
    Rank 4 Gary A Hatt Date Submitted: 2005-12-01Percent: 87.11%
    Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed Elapsed Time 01:50.17
    2. Race Wars FOUNDED BY: TWIN GALAXIES ;View Rules View All Submissions
    Rank 1 David Lowe Date Submitted: 2006-10-12 Percent: 100 %
    Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:34.89
    Rank 2 RedDawn Date Submitted: 2021-06-11 Percent: 88.51%
    Verification Method: TGSAP Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:47.21
    Rank 3 Callan Hendricks Date Submitted: 2005-12-04 Percent: 88.15%
    Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:47.64
    Rank 4 Gary A Hatt Date Submitted: 2005-12-01 Percent: 85.69%
    Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:50.74
    3. Times Square FOUNDED BY: TWIN GALAXIES ; View Rules View All Submissions
    Rank 1 David Lowe Date Submitted: 2006-10-12 Percent: 100 %
    Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:21.72
    Rank 2 Rocky Palmisano Date Submitted: 2021-07-04 Percent: 94.23%
    Verification Method: IN PROCESS Status: Vote
    Elapsed Time 01:26.72
    Rank 3 RedDawn Date Submitted: 2021-05-09 Percent: 90.31%
    Verification Method: TGSAP Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:30.49
    Rank 4 Gary A Hatt Date Submitted: 2005-12-04 Percent: 86.76%
    Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:34.19
    4. China Town FOUNDED BY: TWIN GALAXIES ; View Rules View All Submissions
    Rank 1 RedDawn Date Submitted: 2021-05-24 Percent: 100 %
    Verification Method: TGSAP Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:38.21
    Rank 2 Callan Hendricks Date Submitted: 2005-12-03 Percent: 98.84%
    Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:39.36
    Rank 2 Tommy Callanan Date Submitted: 2005-12-04 Percent: 98.84%
    Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time
    01:39.36
    Rank 4 Gary A Hatt Date Submitted: 2005-12-01 Percent: 98.17%
    Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:40.04
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  2. 07-06-2021, 02:00 PM
    This a easy 1 submission and 3 credibility points Twin Galaxies members
    JJTJohnnyLightning World #1 Racer on Arcade Game Fast & Furious Super Cars 1,872 Match Wins 52Cities
  3. 07-06-2021, 02:12 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by JJT_Defender View Post
    This a easy 1 submission and 3 credibility points Twin Galaxies members
    As far as I know, you don't get credibility points or submission points for disputes. Besides, disputes have to be examined very carefully before voting on them, you cannot see cred points as an incentive.

    I'm not an expert on this game so I can't say for sure if this is a valid dispute or not, but to assure that the referee made an error and the time should be so and so, is not very convincing evidence to me.

    I will abstain and I advise anybody that is not sure about this, to do the same. Disputes are a serious matter.
    Daniel Ocampo
    Tomena Sanner
    Champion and JJT lover (not in that way).
    Likes Snowflake liked this post
  4. 07-06-2021, 02:29 PM
    its not just as far as you know, its been stated from the beginning, not to mention any of us who have voted on disputes can see the effects (or lack thereoff ) on our cred and sub points

    so to be clear, no there is zero submissoin points for voting on a dispute, and there is no direct cred effects. There are indirect cred effects in that if a dispute is deemed valid and a score overturned then people who voted on the original submission NOT the dispute, will have their cred recalculated.

    The rationale was not wanting to game the dispute system. Theres a reason why theres no leaderboard for most disputes. granted, nothing should be gamed, but with disputes its deemed extra important.

    no one should ever blind vote just for cred or sub points, but especially not in disputes, and to remove any encouragement to do so, again, no, there are no sub points or cred handed out.
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
    Thanks Pixe Sukola thanked this post
  5. 07-06-2021, 02:36 PM
    This is conclusive evidence.

    I can care less about credibility points, since 2015 I have lost estimated 30,000 plus.

    The main thing here is that Gary Hatt time was clearly inputted incorrectly by Twin Galaxies referee.

    The convincing evidence is his differential
    Here are some examples of Gary Hatt race times there is a huge difference from 1st place race times and his race times. He clearly not able to achieve these faster race times.

    1. Malibu the race time difference between Gary Hatt time from 1st place race time was 15 seconds

    1. Malibu FOUNDED BY: TWIN GALAXIES ;View Rules View All Submissions Rank

    1 David Lowe Date Submitted: 2006-10-12 Percent: 100 % Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:35.97



    Rank 4 Gary A Hatt Date Submitted: 2005-12-01Percent: 87.11%
    Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed Elapsed Time 01:50.17

    2. Race Wars also called Mojave the race time difference between Gary Hatt time from 1st place race time was 16 seconds


    2. Race Wars FOUNDED BY: TWIN GALAXIES ;View Rules View All Submissions

    Rank 1 David Lowe Date Submitted: 2006-10-12 Percent: 100 %
    Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:34.89


    Rank 4 Gary A Hatt Date Submitted: 2005-12-01 Percent: 85.69%
    Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:50.74

    3. Time Square the difference from Gary Hatt time from 1st place race time was almost 14 seconds

    3. Times Square FOUNDED BY: TWIN GALAXIES ; View Rules View All Submissions

    Rank 1 David Lowe Date Submitted: 2006-10-12 Percent: 100 %
    Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:21.72


    Rank 4 Gary A Hatt Date Submitted: 2005-12-04 Percent: 86.76%
    Verification Method: Referee Status: Undisputed
    Elapsed Time 01:34.19






    Quote Originally Posted by Pixe Sukola View Post
    As far as I know, you don't get credibility points or submission points for disputes. Besides, disputes have to be examined very carefully before voting on them, you cannot see cred points as an incentive.

    I'm not an expert on this game so I can't say for sure if this is a valid dispute or not, but to assure that the referee made an error and the time should be so and so, is not very convincing evidence to me.

    I will abstain and I advise anybody that is not sure about this, to do the same. Disputes are a serious matter.
    JJTJohnnyLightning World #1 Racer on Arcade Game Fast & Furious Super Cars 1,872 Match Wins 52Cities
  6. 07-06-2021, 02:37 PM
    to the dispute itself there are some point i dont follow

    1. JJT you dont merely claim this is impossible, you state that actual time was 1:54.74. how do you know this? if you know the actual time and can explain how you know it, that makes the dispute much easier. Proving a score is impossible is very difficult. But if for example, you have a video of gary getting the 1:54.74 or any earlier refernce to that, you know, if you can explain how you know what gary's exact time was that could help the dispute process alot.
    2. I'm not following the relevance of gary's others score. Is the point just that he has worse times on other tracks and so you dont think hes capable of a good time on this track? People can have varied skills on different games. Sure if i see someone do terrible every time in public and only do great when a private video is sent to a ref i'll have suspicous, but even in those extreme cases thats not considered good enough for a dispute. and i'm not sure these other times even do agood job of making the case thats the case here
    3. why is the time impossible? not just stating you dont believe so because you're an expert, but what exactly has your expertise taught you that we can confirm?
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
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  7. 07-06-2021, 03:20 PM
    Answer to question 1. I should have focused on the clerical Twin Galaxies referee input trace time error from 1:34.74 the correct time would be 1:54.74

    That The Fast and the Furious race time is impossible unless
    a. Using the mega turbo glitch off objects that propel a players vehicle up 1000mph. I have somewhere on one of my Wall post.
    b. Player played on The Fast and the Furious Tokyo Drift
    c. Player played on the Fast and Furious Super Cars / Super Cars
    d. Player used the Home PC version of FFSC or FF Tokyo Drift which has cheats that can get a player totally unrealistic race times of 9 seconds many sub 1 minute race times.
    e. The player altered the games programming.

    Answer to question 2. It is comparison Gary Hatt race times as compared to David Lowe race times. You can clearly see the difference which distinct and extreme also here on the Twin Galaxies referee race time input mistake here below you clearly see
    in the race track Hollywood remember not 1 time did Gary Hatt come close to any of David Lowe other race times but all of a sudden here is a unrealistic time of 1:34.74 the comparison to David Lowe time of 1:43.95 is a difference of 9 seconds, like noted before the The Fast and the Furious games programming does allow it the speeds are slower on race cars on than on the The Fast and the Furious Tokyo Drift and Fast and Furious Super Cars / Super Cars

    and then my Fast and Furious Super Cars race time on Hollywood is TG record of Arcade - FAST AND FURIOUS SUPER CARS - Fastest Race - Hollywood - 01:34.19 - Juan Torres (twingalaxies.com)
    Name:  image.png
Views: 105
Size:  63.4 KB


    Answer to 3. My race time Twin Galaxies record is only 1:34.19 I JJT have done faster race times on Manual plus I had
    I had use of 4 turbo's 1 at the start and 3 in reserve

    The wrongfully inputted race time of 1:34.74 is not possible the games programming does not allow it on The Fast and the Furious but can be achieved on The Fast and the Furious Tokyo Drift and Fast and Furious Super Cars and Super Cars.



    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    to the dispute itself there are some point i dont follow

    1. JJT you dont merely claim this is impossible, you state that actual time was 1:54.74. how do you know this? if you know the actual time and can explain how you know it, that makes the dispute much easier. Proving a score is impossible is very difficult. But if for example, you have a video of gary getting the 1:54.74 or any earlier refernce to that, you know, if you can explain how you know what gary's exact time was that could help the dispute process alot.
    2. I'm not following the relevance of gary's others score. Is the point just that he has worse times on other tracks and so you dont think hes capable of a good time on this track? People can have varied skills on different games. Sure if i see someone do terrible every time in public and only do great when a private video is sent to a ref i'll have suspicous, but even in those extreme cases thats not considered good enough for a dispute. and i'm not sure these other times even do agood job of making the case thats the case here
    3. why is the time impossible? not just stating you dont believe so because you're an expert, but what exactly has your expertise taught you that we can confirm?
    JJTJohnnyLightning World #1 Racer on Arcade Game Fast & Furious Super Cars 1,872 Match Wins 52Cities
  8. 07-16-2021, 05:48 AM
    I haven't voted yet, am always trying to see the possibilities but after playing FNF in general and looking at Gary's scores on FNF on other tracks I will say it makes zero sense. Basically, ALL his other scores are run of the mill, his places are sinking lower. BUT on one the hardest tracks in the game, dominates and buy +20s lol. Just saying..... really? I'm posting times, 1st or not just to get some videos up here! Wish all scores had videos as there is such thing as human err.
    Cruis'nnnn yeaaa yeaa !
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  9. 07-22-2021, 05:04 PM
    After me and my son both been playing on all tracks a little more intensely, I have voted YES to this dispute.

    I have also had a glitch happen to me on Golden Gate that gave me an unreal time. If a video was not scrutinized and you blinked your eyes you would miss the glitch! I am posting it to youtube and will add a link.

    It is also worth mentioning that his Skill Index is no way on par to having such a time on the HARDESY track. Let's be real. Also after playing more I believe some of David Lowe's times more, even though incredibly hard to imagine such flawless runs, but it does seem possible!

    This Hollywood #1 is trash.
    Cruis'nnnn yeaaa yeaa !
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  10. 07-22-2021, 05:39 PM


    This is how you get unreal time. Maybe was not caught!
    Cruis'nnnn yeaaa yeaa !
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