- BotzaBrand

    This poll is closed
  1. - BotzaBrand

    09-25-2021, 05:02 PM
    When playing a game with an onscreen / stage timer can I purposely not complete the level and lose a life in order to replay that stage for more points?

    I've always considered such as a form of leeching. In fact I wasn't aware of point pressing on games without timers until recently.
    In that example the player was killing the same respawning enemies for points and would repeat in accordance to the timer.
  2. 09-25-2021, 05:14 PM
    A timer is usually an important factor in the difference between leeching vs. pressing.

    Leeching is generally defined as a scenario where you could infinitely gather points. That would become a matter of endurance, rather than any skill.

    It sounds like your situation involves a timer. As long as you werent gaining lives back at the same (or faster) rate than you're dying, it would be fine to use the timer to your full advantage. Another example would be if you knew you were capable of beating the game with 5 extra lives (for example) and decided to burn most of them away on a level with potential for scoring a lot of points.

    Basically, the resources you use to gain your score should not be unlimited. If they are, it will be up to other voters whether or not you exploited those features in a inappropriate manner.

    Hope that helps to answer your question a bit?
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  3. 09-25-2021, 06:09 PM
    the leeching rules are long and detailed. but they basically boil down to "can it be done forever". obvious for those of us who like exact wording they have to word it far more complicatedly to deal with things like "well nothing can be done forever cause my arm will wear out" but if you dont care about fine wording and are willing to go by whats obvously meant it really is about "can it be done forever". if you do care about fine wording of finding the precise way to basically say the same thing the leeching rules should be on the FAQ
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
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  4. 09-26-2021, 03:09 PM
    Appreciate the responses. The game in question is Hagane.
    Upon beating the final boss there is a missile being launched and you have to knock out all hit points in order to destroy it. I intentional take out all but one of the hit boxes in order to replay this final stage.

    The game itself has a max of 9 lives. So my goal is to replay this stage 8 times to gain the most points. 1UP drops can happen, but this is more of use what lives you have stockpiled instead of exploiting an infinite loop to keep scoring points. The game does loop once and enters a hard mode, but the final missile stage is where the most points can be obtained in either playthrough almost doubling the amount of points upon entering depending if you have the full 9 lives to burn by this point (250k - 500k
  5. 09-26-2021, 03:33 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by BotzaBrand View Post
    Appreciate the responses. The game in question is Hagane.
    Upon beating the final boss there is a missile being launched and you have to knock out all hit points in order to destroy it. I intentional take out all but one of the hit boxes in order to replay this final stage.

    The game itself has a max of 9 lives. So my goal is to replay this stage 8 times to gain the most points. 1UP drops can happen, but this is more of use what lives you have stockpiled instead of exploiting an infinite loop to keep scoring points. The game does loop once and enters a hard mode, but the final missile stage is where the most points can be obtained in either playthrough almost doubling the amount of points upon entering depending if you have the full 9 lives to burn by this point (250k - 500k
    If the game only has a max of 9 lives stock piled, and it's completely random if a 1UP drops anyway, I'd say that's point pressing because you will end up either having to beat the game, or dying.
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  6. 09-26-2021, 03:45 PM
    Sounds good Botza! I just looked at the stage you are talking about, it would be perfectly fine to press for points there in my opinion. I say go for it!
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  7. 09-26-2021, 04:00 PM
    the drops could make things awkward. i believe the way stuff like this is often handled, is you can only grab a 1 up once per loop, and that is to say if its a loop you're chosing to reenter. for example if a game just restarts every time you beat it then you're not leeching, you're forced to loop and you can grab all the 1-ups you like. but if you're choosing to redo a section that you dont have to redo then 1 1up per limit is usually explcilty put in the rules. the leeching rules dont explicilty say what to do in that case, but its clear that picking up the lives each loop wouldnt be allowed, pretty much leaving the argument to be is the limit 0 or 1, and 1 seems to be whats usually decided
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
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  8. 09-26-2021, 05:41 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    the drops could make things awkward. i believe the way stuff like this is often handled, is you can only grab a 1 up once per loop, and that is to say if its a loop you're chosing to reenter. for example if a game just restarts every time you beat it then you're not leeching, you're forced to loop and you can grab all the 1-ups you like. but if you're choosing to redo a section that you dont have to redo then 1 1up per limit is usually explcilty put in the rules. the leeching rules dont explicilty say what to do in that case, but its clear that picking up the lives each loop wouldnt be allowed, pretty much leaving the argument to be is the limit 0 or 1, and 1 seems to be whats usually decided
    I know games that have the 1UPs set in a specific location are typically one and done, but I don't recall when it's a random drop you can't collect it? Duck Tales for the NES has it written in the rules you can only collect a 1UP one time, but that is because it's in a specific spot and remains there until you collect it, it's not random. Just another thing that probably needs a discussion about.

    I suppose I should ask if you are positive it's random and can happen at any time, or is it after something specific happens? Like killing your 1000 enemy or shooting a certain number shots....all kinds of crazy stuff like that has been done in older games. If you are sure it's completely random, I say collect them all as it has nothing to do with the player forcing anything. If it's something specific, for instance the number of shots things, you could easily manipulate that by shooting bullets but not actually killing the boss.
  9. 09-26-2021, 05:46 PM
    sure the random adds another complication. makes the precedents a little less applicable. wouldnt random still allow infinte though? wouldnt people keep grinding and competing until the randomness goes there way for all practical purposes infinitely (if its random long enough to last the entire game then its functionally equivalent to infinte). just how "random" it is i supposse would matter, but then we're in the spot of trying to calculate and determine where the line is.

    if it drops 100% of the time you cant get it. but if its 99.99% random does that make it ok?

    rather than get into a big argument here, it may be better to submit, let the argument go on there, and eventually a vote will decide
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
  10. 09-26-2021, 06:49 PM
    That makes sense and I would be fine avoiding any 1UP drops on this missile stage and just burn through the lives I already have stock piled. You earn around 20k each time if done right. The game loops, but unlike Contra or Castlevania, it only loops once and difficulty reflects this by more or less being the exact same game, only enemies have double hit points this go around.

    I spent most of last month trying to max out the score. This was a pain because you really have to get lucky on 1UP drops to break through the 800-900k range. When I finally did the score didn't max, lock, or roll over, it simply added the extra digit and kept going. Makes the grinding less of a hassle now and being at ease with a 500k submissionName:  IMG_20210912_162909001.jpg
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