Dispute: Simon Leitch - Xbox 360 - Fallout 3 - Minimalist Completion [Fastest Time] - Player: Anthony Walsh - Almighty Dreadlock

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  1. Dispute: Simon Leitch - Xbox 360 - Fallout 3 - Minimalist Completion [Fastest Time] - Player: Anthony Walsh - Almighty Dreadlock

    11-12-2021, 09:50 AM
    Xbox 360 - Fallout 3 - Minimalist Completion [Fastest Time]
    Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=127963
    Rank

    Rules
    Timing begins from the sound of the first baby cry, and ends the moment you complete the "Take it Back" quest.
    NOTE: "Broken Steel" should not be installed.
    Very Hard Difficulty (must show)
    Player Name
    Anthony Walsh
    Original Adjudication
    N/A
    Verification Method
    DVD
    Verification Date
    2010-02-27
    Disputed Score
    55:00:00.0 (Rank 1)
    Disputed By
    Almighty Dreadlock
    Dispute Evidence / Rationale
    Aside from this score (timespan) claim's being inaccurate (clearly rounded to the minute), it is impossible to achieve through regular (no bug exploitation) gameplay.
    Thanks Maris Memes thanked this post
    Likes Lauren Tyler liked this post
  2. 11-15-2021, 02:20 PM
    A time like this does seem very suspect.
    Lauren Tyler
    Eternal Champion of Ragol
  3. 11-18-2021, 01:35 AM
    I've tried for countless hours, but the time isn't possible to do without CES.

    In travel distance alone to clear the requirements for this track, It cannot be done in the time frame.
    I believe the time without CES is possible on VERY EASY, but not on Very Hard.

    Citadel Early Skip allows one to jump a huge portion of the main quest to be told to go to Vault 87.
    Without it, One would have to clear the Jefferson Memorial of all mutants. That sounds easy on Very Easy, but Very Hard?
    Here is a fine example. We start the game with +120 10mm rounds. It takes about 15-30 rounds to kill a mutant, some might even spawn as armored brutes.

    I have a video explaining this very much in detail and another record to submit. It's at around 1 hour and 40minutes and its mostly cause I grab the alien blaster at the start of the game. Can't submit it cause I have no submission points :C
    This is a live copy non-edit of that run I haven't uploaded to give the idea of adjudicating this the right way.

    https://www.facebook.com/10006489982...2128256166645/
    The distance it takes in just walking doesn't allow for 55 minutes even by current speedrun.com fastest console glitchless time (who uses text skip and taft tunnel door exploit.) whose time is also over 1 hour, but done on Very Easy. Let the above video be a measurement of how sus this is. I also wanna see the DVD if it exists lol.
  4. 11-18-2021, 01:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Maris Memes View Post
    I've tried for countless hours, but the time isn't possible to do without CES.

    In travel distance alone to clear the requirements for this track, It cannot be done in the time frame.
    I believe the time without CES is possible on VERY EASY, but not on Very Hard.

    Citadel Early Skip allows one to jump a huge portion of the main quest to be told to go to Vault 87.
    Without it, One would have to clear the Jefferson Memorial of all mutants. That sounds easy on Very Easy, but Very Hard?
    Here is a fine example. We start the game with +120 10mm rounds. It takes about 15-30 rounds to kill a mutant, some might even spawn as armored brutes.

    I have a video explaining this very much in detail and another record to submit. It's at around 1 hour and 40minutes and its mostly cause I grab the alien blaster at the start of the game. Can't submit it cause I have no submission points :C
    This is a live copy non-edit of that run I haven't uploaded to give the idea of adjudicating this the right way.

    https://www.facebook.com/10006489982...2128256166645/
    The distance it takes in just walking doesn't allow for 55 minutes even by current speedrun.com fastest console glitchless time (who uses text skip and taft tunnel door exploit.) whose time is also over 1 hour, but done on Very Easy. Let the above video be a measurement of how sus this is. I also wanna see the DVD if it exists lol.
    Can't seem to edit my own post but the "I believe the time without CES is possible on VERY EASY, but not on Very Hard."
    just completely ignore as It's late at 4am typing this and my brain is turned off to not fully care.
  5. 11-21-2021, 04:26 AM
    I just realised that this score claim is a timespan of 55 hours, not 55 minutes. As a result, I am obliged to modify this dispute's rationale.

    New rationale, as follows:-

    This score (timespan) claim is unacceptably inaccurate, as it has clearly been rounded to the hour.

    Dragging a game out for 55 hours is theoretically possible, but it is doubtful that 55 hours of gameplay footage was submitted to claim this record. The submitter almost certainly meant to stake a claim of 55 minutes, so this record is just as certainly a typographical error.
  6. 11-23-2021, 01:25 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Almighty Dreadlock View Post
    I just realised that this score claim is a timespan of 55 hours, not 55 minutes. As a result, I am obliged to modify this dispute's rationale.

    New rationale, as follows:-

    This score (timespan) claim is unacceptably inaccurate, as it has clearly been rounded to the hour.

    Dragging a game out for 55 hours is theoretically possible, but it is doubtful that 55 hours of gameplay footage was submitted to claim this record. The submitter almost certainly meant to stake a claim of 55 minutes, so this record is just as certainly a typographical error.
    Well we clearly know it was rounded up to 55 and I dont see in 2010 someone submitting a 55 hour run of Fallout 3 especially without the exact time. The 00:00.0 part is bullshit. In 55 hours you could do every quest in the game and the submission was DVD.

    Almighty, How does a DVD hold 55 hours? CDs at the time could only hold roughly 120 mins. 2 Hours with horrible quality back in 2010? By 2009 capture cards were already a thing so if this truly was a 55 hour record. It would have made sense it would have been a video submission via a capture card.

    This isn't the case and this is the issue were facing.

    We know the track says 55 hours. We also know that this was DVD submitted and thus it was originally meant to be a 55 min record. We know its a TG staff submission ****-up for rounding it.

    What blows my mind is how a record from 2010. In 2021. Stay up on the site with :00:00.00 such lazy rounding. For 11 years on Twin Galaxies with a fraudulent score. No tape publicly viewable. While also not even being possible?

    What this tells me is the DVD submission - WAS NOT EVEN WATCHED OR CHECKED FOR CHEATING!
  7. 11-25-2021, 06:35 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Maris Memes View Post
    Well we clearly know it was rounded up to 55 and I dont see in 2010 someone submitting a 55 hour run of Fallout 3 especially without the exact time. The 00:00.0 part is bullshit. In 55 hours you could do every quest in the game and the submission was DVD.

    Almighty, How does a DVD hold 55 hours? CDs at the time could only hold roughly 120 mins. 2 Hours with horrible quality back in 2010? By 2009 capture cards were already a thing so if this truly was a 55 hour record. It would have made sense it would have been a video submission via a capture card.

    This isn't the case and this is the issue were facing.

    We know the track says 55 hours. We also know that this was DVD submitted and thus it was originally meant to be a 55 min record. We know its a TG staff submission ****-up for rounding it.

    What blows my mind is how a record from 2010. In 2021. Stay up on the site with :00:00.00 such lazy rounding. For 11 years on Twin Galaxies with a fraudulent score. No tape publicly viewable. While also not even being possible?

    What this tells me is the DVD submission - WAS NOT EVEN WATCHED OR CHECKED FOR CHEATING!
    TG has an unwritten rule (of course it does...) that you were allowed to pause/swap/stop/start recoding devices for recording purposes only. So that part can be cleared up. Everything else you are saying seems pretty legit as to an exact 55hr run submission with no minutes, seconds seems pretty unlikely. However, it is possible. Your time frames without exploits makes sense also. Hard to complete a game if you are walking the whole time just to get where you need to go before doing any other action.

    As for someone submitting a run this long, I've seen plenty of less than optimal runs on TG. Some people want to submit their times simply for acknowledgement that they did it. Could have been a full completion time and they submitted it. Disputing old scores is ridiculously hard because they have no evidence. Since they were accepted, they are protected. In order to remove a score, you need definitive proof that what you are saying is/isn't possible. Good luck with the rest of the dispute. I didn't see your submission so I can't comment on that.
  8. 11-25-2021, 09:28 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185 View Post
    TG has an unwritten rule (of course it does...) that you were allowed to pause/swap/stop/start recoding devices for recording purposes only. So that part can be cleared up. Everything else you are saying seems pretty legit as to an exact 55hr run submission with no minutes, seconds seems pretty unlikely. However, it is possible. Your time frames without exploits makes sense also. Hard to complete a game if you are walking the whole time just to get where you need to go before doing any other action.

    As for someone submitting a run this long, I've seen plenty of less than optimal runs on TG. Some people want to submit their times simply for acknowledgement that they did it. Could have been a full completion time and they submitted it. Disputing old scores is ridiculously hard because they have no evidence. Since they were accepted, they are protected. In order to remove a score, you need definitive proof that what you are saying is/isn't possible. Good luck with the rest of the dispute. I didn't see your submission so I can't comment on that.
    so splicing was allowed back then?
  9. 11-25-2021, 09:42 PM
    we know rounding happened. So rounding alone isnt cause for removal, but this is extra interesting, cause if minutes were replaced with hours, and the submitter was short changed, it seems like it might be easier than normal to get the submitter to back the dispute claims.

    voting yes. its not conclusive, but its pretty compelling.
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
  10. 11-25-2021, 10:34 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    we know rounding happened. So rounding alone isnt cause for removal, but this is extra interesting, cause if minutes were replaced with hours, and the submitter was short changed, it seems like it might be easier than normal to get the submitter to back the dispute claims.

    voting yes. its not conclusive, but its pretty compelling.
    I agree, but you know TG is going to say "Prove he didn't do it in 55hrs exactly". To me, this is one of those scores that will always be last place so it's affect on TG is minimal, and there can't be a lawsuit if it simply remains no matter how ludicrous it is. Accuracy of the leaderboard, sure, but it can't be proven to be an inaccurate time when it is possible to get the time. Todd Roger's Dragster time was proven impossible, this time is definitely possible. How can it be removed? Is it even worth the headache?
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