Dispute: John McAllister - Arcade - Deluxe Space Invaders - Points - Player: Leo Daniels - Score: 399,990

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  1. Dispute: John McAllister - Arcade - Deluxe Space Invaders - Points - Player: Leo Daniels - Score: 399,990

    01-13-2022, 04:40 AM
    Arcade - Deluxe Space Invaders - Points
    Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=11077
    Rank

    Rules
    Dip Switch Bank:
    1-2 = ON
    3 = OFF/UNUSED
    4 = ON
    5-7 = ON [Upright Model]
    5-7 = OFF [Cocktail Model]
    8 = OFF/UNUSED
    Note: The above Dip Switches, are not only the FACTORY DEFAULT settings, but are also the correct Twin Galaxies Tournament Settings for this title and will provide the following settings;
    3 Laser Bases
    Player Name
    Leo Daniels
    Original Adjudication
    N/A
    Verification Method
    Referee
    Verification Date
    1981-08-18
    Disputed Score
    399,990 (Rank 2)
    Disputed By
    redelf
    Dispute Evidence / Rationale
    Disputing this score for many reasons.
    1. This game is hard and was meant to be hard. As you progress through the waves the game leaves out several enemies or holes in the formation. These holes make it so that when using the strategy of letting the wave hit the bottom so they can no longer hit you with the shots as they go right through you. It leaves a gap in the columns and allows them to now shoot you. It also has an enemy that splits making it so that you have to backtrack in order to clear the bottom row so they don't drop down to far. The saucer that comes out will also now drop new enemies down on to the playfield either filling in the space on the left side or right side making the fleet of enemies hit the sides faster and drop down. Sometimes you are on the wrong side of this and you aren't able to get to the other side in time to shoot them before they drop to the bottom and game over. When you have a gap in the enemy formation and you die once you are not going to be able to get to other side and finish shooting the bottom row, now again it's game over.
    2. Score is suspect as it comes from Leo Daniels arcade. Over the years many scores have been removed from that location as the scores were just too far away from the norm to be real. Back in the day it was common practice to lie about scores coming out of your arcade to draw press and player attention to it.
    3. All the looking around and hunting for scores or techniques have come up short. High score sites, MARP, and youtube have also not panned out. The highest score found is for arcade is around 30k and for mame with proof is around 21k.
    4. Time it takes to get this kind of score would be close to 8 hours as it scores very similar to Space Invaders. The record on Space Invaders MAME of 257k took just over 4.5 hours.
    5. I can't beat it as of now :)
    6. Possibly data entry error of entering score from another game.
    7. Some glitch was used that we don't know about.
    8. Just a flat out lie to promote the arcade with another fake world record score to gain press and exposure.

    Would love to hear from you guys on this, any stories to tell or information on these two scores would be great.
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  2. 01-14-2022, 02:41 AM
    Did some more playing around with the game trying out different ideas to see if any new tricks could be discovered.

    I found that you can on the first level kill all the invaders with 55 shots, that's 1 for each of them and if done in 55 shots will award an extra man. The more common practice to do this is to shoot over 255 shots to roll the shot counter and then kill off the last few invaders to be awarded the extra man.

    This can only be done on the first level for the following reasons.
    1. It's the only level that the saucer won't send down more troops making the enemy count more than 55.
    2. The invaders start out 1 row lower than the 1st wave making it so that you don't have enough time to roll the shot counter and be awarded the extra man.
    3. After level 1 the wave formation has an enemy that splits when you shoot it, making more than 55 enemies again and you won't be able to gain an extra man.

    I tried to kill my last life and get an extra life at the same time. A few games when you die and get an extra life at the same time the game will sometimes award you 255 lives. I wasn't able to do this trying a few different ways. Doesn't mean it's not possible it just means I haven't found a way to make it happen if it is possible.
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  3. 01-17-2022, 04:47 AM
    Name:  si.PNG
Views: 133
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    This is the progression of levels.
    Starts at lvl 1 and goes to lvl 9 before resetting the difficulty to lvl 2.
    Next progression of waves starts at lvl 10 and goes to lvl 17 before resetting to lvl 2 again.
    Then this set of 8 waves repeats indefinitely as far as we can tell.

    So as you can see you won't be able to use the wall of death technique and as far as I know you also won't be able to fire off 255 shots as the invaders start down so low that there isn't enough time to do the extra life trick after the first wave. So your number of lives is limited to 3 +1 +1 for a total of 5, 1 from points and 1 from the extra life trick.

    No other safe techniques have been discovered to handle wave after wave of invaders. In order to reach the score of 400k you will need to eliminate anywhere from 250-350 waves depending on how many saucers you hit. Each wave of invaders is worth anywhere from 990 points up to almost 1500 per wave.
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  4. 01-23-2022, 09:17 PM
    Evidence provided is interesting but not objectively definitive that the disputed score is impossible.
    Is there anything else to add, or are we overlooking something?
  5. 01-23-2022, 11:05 PM
    I just contacted Leo this evening, he has acknowledged contact, I then sent some questions and request that he hasn't had time to respond to as of yet.

    I'm still compiling and processing game mechanics that I'm learning about. I have also put out a request to Prog61 https://www.youtube.com/c/Prog61 to do some messing around with this game. Still experimenting with various ideas and strategies. No new major discoveries have shown up to talk about as of yet.
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  6. 03-28-2022, 06:19 PM
    All scores in the Twin Galaxies database are considered valid until definitively proven otherwise.
    It is the responsibility of the dispute claim submitter to provide objective and definitive evidence to support their claim.
    A score, once verified and accepted into the Twin Galaxies database does not need to "re-prove" itself. Therefore it is not appropriate for dispute claimants to contact members with accepted scores to question the veracity of their accepted submission. This activity is frowned upon and strongly discouraged. The member with the accepted score is under no obligation to answer any questions or respond in any way if they choose not to. Their decision to not respond is not considered to be indicative of anything other than that they are not interested in participating in the process.
    Members do not submit performances to Twin Galaxies to get verified so that they can later be questioned infinitely about the veracity of the submission. The adjudication process is the time for that questioning - once that is completed and the score accepted, the submitter should not be subject to any further uninvited inquiry.
    We ask that members refrain from contacting other members with accusations or questions concerning their accepted scores veracity.
    If a dispute claimant cannot objectively and definitively support their claim of score invalidity with stand alone evidence independently then the dispute claim will likely not be successful and should likely not be pursued further.
  7. 05-06-2022, 09:56 PM
    There's the unconfirmed trick (in both the original and Deluxe S.I.) of stopping the invaders from marching and picking off mystery ships for as long as you want.

    http://www.ataricompendium.com/game_...edeluxesi.html

    Perhaps someone like Don Hodges can look at the code to see if the trick exists, and if it does, how to trigger it.
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