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  1. 08-14-2022, 05:40 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by comboace View Post
    I use the exact same convertor for my games as well since my Supergun uses that connection. I also bought a NEO GEO style controller that also has the DB15 connection type. I just finished upgrading the stick and buttons.
    Nice. Man i wish i held onto the aes stick i owned back when i had the neo geo cd before an unfortunate modding screw up.
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  2. 08-16-2022, 11:12 AM
    Would Twin Galaxies adjudicators accept a Donkey Kong arcade submission in which the gamer took the PCB out of its original cabinet, modified it so that it could be played with a SNES controller, and then hooked it up to his living room TV and performed it like that?
    I doubt it.

    Here's my concerns:

    1) the use of a PS4 controller - This is being submitted to the arcade category. No one who plays this on an arcade has the option/ability of playing with something like a PS4 controller. That's an unfair advantage IMO over someone actually playing this on a Neo Geo cab. If this precedent were set it could greatly effect the arcade leaderboards. Imagine games where scoring high enough is only possible with the use of certain (non original, non arcade) controllers, thereby making it so the only way to compete is using a board modified to take console controllers.

    2) the boards - Since this submission came up Ive tried to do some digging. There are thousands of these single slot Neo Geo boards being sold. There's 2 ebay sellers I noticed who have each sold 100 or more single slot Neo Geo boards, there are several companys' producing these consolized neo Geo one slot systems, I dont see how thats possible without them having been reproduced.

    I get that Neo Geo is a bit different than most arcade systems in its ability to change out games so its entirely possible my suspicion of these being reproduced is unwarranted, but in the arcade collecting hobby getting 50 of the same arcade board is something thats pretty unheard of, let alone 500 or 5000 of them. I talked to one of the eBay sellers and he told me he gets them from a vendor. I assume this ebay seller is not the vendors only customer, so this vendor alone has likely sold thousands of single slot Neo Geo boards. Plus Arcadeworks and the other companies who make consolized Neo Geo one slot systems have presumably each sold hundreds or thousands of these boards. How is that possible, where could all these boards be coming from if theyre not being reproduced?
    Rampage Arcade World Champion
    ...............Roy was Right..................
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  3. 08-16-2022, 11:24 AM
    exceliron is making great points but i'd also hate to see this rejected. maybe we can feed two birds with one scone here. neo geo mvs should really have its own platofrm the way aes does for multiple reasons. If mvs got its own platform its alot more justified to make special rules for it than if its under arcade.
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
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  4. 08-16-2022, 11:31 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    exceliron is making great points but i'd also hate to see this rejected. maybe we can feed two birds with one scone here. neo geo mvs should really have its own platofrm the way aes does for multiple reasons. If mvs got its own platform its alot more justified to make special rules for it than if its under arcade.
    JJTJohnnyLightning World #1 Racer on Arcade Game Fast & Furious Super Cars 1,872 Match Wins 52Cities
  5. 08-16-2022, 11:38 AM
    1) the use of a PS4 controller - This is being submitted to the arcade category. No one who plays this on an arcade has the option/ability of playing with something like a PS4 controller. That's an unfair advantage IMO over someone actually playing this on a Neo Geo cab. If this precedent were set it could greatly effect the arcade leaderboards. Imagine games where scoring high enough is only possible with the use of certain (non original, non arcade) controllers, thereby making it so the only way to compete is using a board modified to take console controllers.

    #1 I agree it would clearly be advantage then the solution would be for Twin Galaxies @admin staff create a platform for the track and rules, problem solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excelliron View Post
    Would Twin Galaxies adjudicators accept a Donkey Kong arcade submission in which the gamer took the PCB out of its original cabinet, modified it so that it could be played with a SNES controller, and then hooked it up to his living room TV and performed it like that?
    I doubt it.

    Here's my concerns:



    2) the boards - Since this submission came up Ive tried to do some digging. There are thousands of these single slot Neo Geo boards being sold. There's 2 ebay sellers I noticed who have each sold 100 or more single slot Neo Geo boards, there are several companys' producing these consolized neo Geo one slot systems, I dont see how thats possible without them having been reproduced.

    I get that Neo Geo is a bit different than most arcade systems in its ability to change out games so its entirely possible my suspicion of these being reproduced is unwarranted, but in the arcade collecting hobby getting 50 of the same arcade board is something thats pretty unheard of, let alone 500 or 5000 of them. I talked to one of the eBay sellers and he told me he gets them from a vendor. I assume this ebay seller is not the vendors only customer, so this vendor alone has likely sold thousands of single slot Neo Geo boards. Plus Arcadeworks and the other companies who make consolized Neo Geo one slot systems have presumably each sold hundreds or thousands of these boards. How is that possible, where could all these boards be coming from if theyre not being reproduced?
    JJTJohnnyLightning World #1 Racer on Arcade Game Fast & Furious Super Cars 1,872 Match Wins 52Cities
  6. 08-16-2022, 11:42 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    exceliron is making great points but i'd also hate to see this rejected. maybe we can feed two birds with one scone here. neo geo mvs should really have its own platofrm the way aes does for multiple reasons. If mvs got its own platform its alot more justified to make special rules for it than if its under arcade.
    Honestly I can reason arguments both for and against the use of the PS4 controller.
    And as for the boards, like I said, my suspicion may be completely unwarranted. IF thats the case there wouldnt be any reason for it not to be accepted. Im not necessarily against the submission being accepted, I just wanted to raise my concerns. It would help to know the number of Neo Geo single slot cabinets SNK produced but I havnt been able to find any info like that.


    PS: I could see Snowflakes comment just fine, though Im always in Darkmode
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  7. 08-16-2022, 11:42 AM
    PlayStation controller not the original clearly advantage.

    Best solution is for @admin staff create a Platform for this track problem solved no more concerns or issues by Twin Galaxies members.

    Quote Originally Posted by comboace View Post
    The Omega system itself doesn't need its own platform. It's just a NEO GEO MVS board in a mod case. The question should be to make a platform for the multi-cart games. Since the multi-cart is technically an emulated hardware piece for the software, it should fall under emulation. But that would mean to make a separate platform for all the title for it as well.
    JJTJohnnyLightning World #1 Racer on Arcade Game Fast & Furious Super Cars 1,872 Match Wins 52Cities
  8. 08-16-2022, 11:52 AM
    Reviewing the rules as they stand:

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/wiki_in...ll-Submissions

    Unless otherwise specified in the game's leaderboard variation rule set, the general rule is that all games are to be played with original hardware, with original game software.
    OK, so it falls foul of this one. Multiple people are citing the use of flash carts. Arcade games are _not_mentioned_ in the rules:

    Unless otherwise specified in the game's leaderboard variation rule set, console games must be run on official hardware. However, modifications needed to support the use of external storage devices such as the PlayStation 2 HDD, PS2 HD Loader, Everdrive or other mechanisms are considered generally acceptable unless otherwise prohibited by track specific rules, or the discovery and documentation of definitive unfair advantage of use for that game track during an adjudicative score verification process. This section does not apply to PC games, as they have no stock hardware.
    ... so if the flash cart is not permitted for arcade, the submission potentially also fails.

    Unless otherwise specified in the game's leaderboard variation rule set, removing or altering any part of a game's software is forbidden. Examples include software mods, the crooked cartridge trick, or disk streaming. Editing config files and console commands for PC games beyond the scope of the in-game settings are only allowed for purely cosmetic changes that grant no gameplay advantages.
    So either TG needs to be petitioned for the rules to accept flash carts on Arcade or a new track needs to be created to permit the flash cart (thus voiding the global rules).
    Lots of 1sts to be surpassed: what are you waiting for? Play the game, submit the score...
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  9. 08-16-2022, 11:53 AM
    I have used Sega controllers on A800, Sega controllers on TI99 with a Wico adapter, and PS4 controller on MAME. None of that was ever called in to question. Those aren't the "intended or original" controllers for those systems. Not sure how that is too terribly different from this situation.
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  10. 08-16-2022, 11:54 AM
    As for the PS4 controller, the Arcade platform is again _not_mentioned_ in the rules:

    Unless otherwise specified in the game's leaderboard variation rule set, console players may use third-party controllers, but may not use features not present on controllers bundled with the system. For example, auto- or turbo-fire controllers are banned, except for the TurboGrafix-16 where stock controllers have it. Pressing up and down or left and right simultaneously on a dpad is not allowed as it requires hardware modification in order to do so. PC gamers may use any reasonable input device and remap keys, but may not use macros, scripts or programmable keyboards to automate button-presses.
    Lots of 1sts to be surpassed: what are you waiting for? Play the game, submit the score...
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