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Snowflake
12-04-2019 at 11:26 PM
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Intellivison voice b-17 bomber

@Garrett Holland @Intellivision Master @glenncase moving the discussion here as it would just be clutter in the dispute. i wanna talk about the dispute but also the game.

So i've played a few rounds, man, i think it sucks, but maybe i just think it sucks cause i'm bad at it. So only loosely related to the dispute i was hoping to maybe learn more about playing well, for its own sake, but as well as then i could give a better opinion. For starters, when you fly over your target, if you miss, but then dont change the cursor, the map says you stay there forever, but you dont seem to refly over it. do you have to (or rather should you) just move onto the next spot? what happens when you stay in one spot? also i've been playing on practice so maybe that changes things? note, i do think the voice is cool.

more related to the dispute, glen i couldnt see your video. twitch sometimes changes the url of the videos, i was going to watch your but can no longer find it. i'd appreciate the updated link if you have it. i can say i know enough now to know the game scores VERY low. not only is there a lot of dead time just flying to your target, but once you get there the point values are fairly small. based on just a few rounds of play and seeing how scoring works i'm already very very skeptical. i'd like to get better though and provide an hour estimate. is this a 100 hr game? icant begin to make an estimate yet

any way sorry this is all questions and rambling and no real input. thats why i didnt want to clutter the official thread. looking to learn here. and as i'm already annoyed by the game, i dont really wanna play much more without some collaboration.

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  1. Snowflake's Avatar

    i can already see my 100 hr talk is nonsense (as i admitted i had no idea, just new the score would take long). i'm now pretty sure it can be done in under 12 hours if you just leech bandits. presumbaly going for goals will net points quicker (if you dont lose the game, or lose points in the process). still strongly suspecting is a very long game and hard game and at a minimum the settins are wrong since the magazine it was imported from never specified settings so how can we?

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  2. Garrett Holland's Avatar

    I have an INTV, and I also have B17 Bomber, and although it is NIB, I may just open it to join in this exercise. Ill decide this weekend likely when Im not so caught up with work.

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  3. Snowflake's Avatar

    do you have the voice module? it absoultely requires voice. whats awkward is, you only see one screen at a time, which kinda makes sense. gauges, ground (for bombing), and all 4 sides, as well as things like map and point screen. when you're on one of the screens the voice tells you which side you're being attacked from so you know to change to that view. its another one of those games where voice isnt just nice, its a requirement.

  4. Snowflake's Avatar

    also you're property, youre call, but it hurts me to imagine that. i got mine loose in a group of 20 games for $10. now while i realize that was a great deal, the point is you should be able to find another loose one cheap. you dont have to destroy your masterpiece

  5. Garrett Holland's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    do you have the voice module? it absoultely requires voice. whats awkward is, you only see one screen at a time, which kinda makes sense. gauges, ground (for bombing), and all 4 sides, as well as things like map and point screen. when you're on one of the screens the voice tells you which side you're being attacked from so you know to change to that view. its another one of those games where voice isnt just nice, its a requirement.


    Yep. I just hope it works LOL

  6. Snowflake's Avatar

    i thought mine didnt work, then i bought a second, then learned they can take like an hour to warm up the first time. its weird, i dont know if its a capactior or something else. i've seen atari games like this. if they're idle for years, or maybe decades, it can take like an hour to "warm up", but then you can put it on the shelf for months and its good to go again

    remember, with the voice module, you can still play normal games. so a good test of your voice module is to just connect it and try to run a normal game on it. if you cant get a normal game to work you'll need to deal with that first anyway

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  7. Garrett Holland's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    also you're property, youre call, but it hurts me to imagine that. i got mine loose in a group of 20 games for $10. now while i realize that was a great deal, the point is you should be able to find another loose one cheap. you dont have to destroy your masterpiece

    Come to think of it, I may have a loose one after all. I had forgotten that I bought a cartridge lot of 50+ loosies on eBay several months ago ... I havent even looked at em yet :-/

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  8. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett Holland


    Come to think of it, I may have a loose one after all. I had forgotten that I bought a cartridge lot of 50+ loosies on eBay several months ago ... I havent even looked at em yet :-/


    Ooo, you've caught collectors rot! :D

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  9. Intellivision Master's Avatar
    It's been a long time since I've played this. The score in the database doesn't show the starting level. It's important.


    On Practice Level you fly around as much as you want - there's no fuel loss - and you have unlimited bombs, so there's not much of a challenge.


    On the other levels, you go on a bombing run, and when you return to England, the game ends!! So it's not a high scoring game. I'm guessing the score in the database is from practice level. I would have to play it to refresh my memory on the scoring.


    Yes I agree... I don't like this game either. Despite their attempt to make a sophisticated-controlling game, it's a very simple game. It always bothered me that you actually have to watch your bomber fly across the ocean for so long. It makes no sense.


    Regarding setting your curser on a target, and missing the target; you have to fly away for a bit and then come back to the target. By placing the curser to another spot... fly for a bit then put the curser back on the target. You'll get another shot at it.


    The main gameplay ... is that the fighters get tougher and tougher to fight the longer you stay on your run.


    It's been a long time!!


    “Bomb's Awaaaaaay”
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  10. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett Holland


    Come to think of it, I may have a loose one after all. I had forgotten that I bought a cartridge lot of 50+ loosies on eBay several months ago ... I havent even looked at em yet :-/


    Yeah, look there first...

    :P

    I still remember that friggin Motorodeo you opened!


    You prolly already know, but be careful with the INT-you can fart in the wrong spot in the room and break them.

    NEVER leave them plugged in overnight, ever.


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  11. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    I DID give this a look when I did INT, BTW-I couldn't really make heads or tails of it, Al had just taught me to play Bomb Squad properly, so I thought I was "the stuff", lol, but I just couldn't figure out B-17, even with the manual.


    It SEEMS like a game that is really good-IF you know exactly what you are doing, I just never did.


    Have Fun!!!

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  12. Snowflake's Avatar

    Al for the win. Two amazing points on al's part. one for the dispute, one for gameplay

    1. Dispute. I didnt realize in non practice you only get one mission per game. i'll have to confirm it myself and make video to proof to others of course, but thats YUGE. we already knew when they imported they couldnt be sure of settings, but now we can go one step further and we can be SURE they chose the WRONG settings on the track. Which as we already suspected, but will have proof after the video is made, that at a bare minimum the score does not belong on the track with "default" settings, since its already been established default means disc, but practice is "1". This alone forces a rule change to the track, or the score stripped.
    2. game. excellent wording all. complex controls simple game. the game is annoying cause you have to read the instruction to know how to play yuck, i hate reading. but thats the only thing "complex" about it, that it has a lot of different screens. any one of those screens is incredibly simple.so all you do is complicately jump back and forth between simple things. difficult to learn, but once you do learn it completely simple game. i was having trouble putting that into words but you really nailed it "complex controls simple game".

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  13. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerpoco

    I DID give this a look when I did INT, BTW-I couldn't really make heads or tails of it, Al had just taught me to play Bomb Squad properly, so I thought I was "the stuff", lol, but I just couldn't figure out B-17, even with the manual.


    It SEEMS like a game that is really good-IF you know exactly what you are doing, I just never did.


    Have Fun!!!

    treasure of tarmin is really good -- if you know exactly what youre doing
    this game sucks

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  14. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Not rehashing old ghosts, but I worry there are a few different INT tracks where people were allowed to play on easy settings in the past, but not now, Astrosmash being one of them.


    Either/Or/Regardless, glad to see the INT being talked about, glad to see Al involved in the conversation-didn't realize how hard my LTO was to come by these days, makes me feel bad, it just sitting there, so mebbe I'll try to jump back in with you Guys soon, eyes open for another INT.

    :D


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  15. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerpoco

    Not rehashing old ghosts, but I worry there are a few different INT tracks where people were allowed to play on easy settings in the past, but not now, Astrosmash being one of them.




    we'll (and by we i mean garett ;)) will get to them one by one. i read somewhere corcoran believed settings shoudl always be easiest -- his argument had merit, since if you make settings easiest you dont have to worry about someone cheating with wrong settings. remember ron ran snipercase and handled intellivision and atari early on, so regardless of how we feel about him, its worth considering his view point since his viewpoints affected policy. not saying we have to like or agree with him please noone twist my words that way, just trying to figure out what happened under his watch. i also know on atari setting were mucked up and changed to 1b when they were users choice. so your concern of wrong setting is absolutely possible.

    but, going with the "one by one" approach, lets deal with this first ;). if wikipedia is right theres only 5 voice game and i have all but the sports one (yuck sports). so i do want to go through all of these.

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  16. datagod's Avatar

    I loved this game as a kid. My younger brother and I would play in practice mode and just enjoy bombing everythign to bits. The vice module was amazingly cool back then.

    To this day, he still says to me "uh oh. That was not the taaaaaaaaaaarget!"

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  17. Intellivision Master's Avatar

    Ok ... I played this game a bit today. On practice mode, you have unlimited bombs, no fuel concerns, the bandits are very easy to shoot down, and you hardly get hit with flack. I cleared 1/3 of the targets on the map (2,000 points) and still went back to base voluntarily. I could have bombed more targets on the first run. If you come back to base once in a while, you could literally bomb every target on the map eventually ... getting you the 8,000 points to match the record (Assuming that's a real score). My memory is off a bit ... On the other levels, you CAN go on subsequent bombing runs but you have to come back to base after a target or two that you hit because otherwise, you'll run out of fuel. Literally - you have to come back immediately. Thus making the game too boring to continue playing. it takes "several minutes" to get back to base after each target is hit and I never had the patience to try several runs. The other thing ... I used to play on disc level. Every subsequent run that you go on ... the bandits get better at evading you and the flack hits you more and more ... so after 2 or 3 runs, it's near impossible to try a subsequent run. The bandits get you on run 3 or 4. So it's impossible to score thousands of points on disc level. I'm 99.999% sure the score was made on practice level. Who would have the patience to come back to base after each target is hit? And why bother, if it was "ok" for this player to get the score on practice level !!! The track should probably just say "Level 1 - Practice". Just my opinion from today's game-play.

    The other "skill" component ... As your bombing target gets on sight ... The computer yells "Bandits - 3 O'Clock" ... So you have to make the choice ... take out the bombing target or fight the bandit. You can't do both. You have to hit targets or you get no points. You have to hit bandits or they take out your sights. This happens on every target on higher skill levels. You're hearing "Mayday" very quickly.

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  18. Snowflake's Avatar

    to your point about the tack should be practice yes absolutely. not sure if you read the dispute or track thread, but this score was imported from a magainze that allowed the honor system and any settings. so we could already prove practice was allowed we just couldnt prove practice was what was used.

    it sounds like you're saying this score is close to a maxout on practice, is that correct? i know theres no true max since with infinite fuel you can keep fighting bandits, but it sounds like its close?

  19. Intellivision Master's Avatar
    It looks about right for a max (assuming every map is a little different; so plus or minus 10%).


    I completed 1/3 of the targets and I had 2000 points; ended the game voluntarily. I left the further targets on the map which are more valuable for points. So 8000 sounds in the range for someone completing the whole board.


    I think just about anyone can complete the map of targets, if the player can put up with 80 or 90 minutes of boredom.


    The game is fun for a few minutes. But there is very little thought to the “goal” and the “enemies” in the game.


    A game should be very difficult but possible to beat. This one goes from “too Easy” to “they kill you off” in one step.
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  20. Snowflake's Avatar

    interesting 80 to 90 minutes makes me think its more believable -- especially if the person just had a few games. also, if they happened to pick a scor around the max, in my opinion that makes it more believable. what are the odds a wild guess made up score would happen to be so near the max score? i feel simliarly about garretts atlantis dispute, and i know we dont see eye to eye on that one. but it sounds like we can at least all see eye and push to have the rules updated to either make it users choice or practice thereby giving everyone else a chance. might be worth making a track for other difficulties. i dont want to make a track for discspeed/level 4 cause then theresd be a duplicate with the current tracks rules. so i'm thinking maybe a track for level 3 which can have deriviates for the others including 4 after the rules are fixed. having tracks people can compete on would help further the argument of the impossiblity of the score on later levels


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