Snowflake's Feed

Snowflake
12-24-2019 at 08:25 AM
39 Comments
Rate this Entry

Would a bounty system renew interest in tg

In another thread discussion of a specific bounty came up that a system could really help. sure we could all work together and use the forums, which will likely be what winds up happening, but let me make my pitch to jace and mrs @SincerelyFranny regadless

Bounties in and of themselves are awesome. for those who think they can win the bounty theres definite excitement, even for spectators though things are more interesting to watch when there's a prize on the table. It also gives the appearance (and a real appearance) of tg being an organization about vido game competition that rewards player skill. With bounties put up by other players it fosters community interaction. Currently being a good gamer, adjudicator, or knowledgable provider of info, is how to contribute, some people have none of these skills but can contribute with funding.

we all know about jerks welching on bets. one benefit of a centralized system is if tg holds the prizes it can be guaranteed they'll be sent out. a very easy prize pool for tg to automate would be if we could donate submission points to the bounty. that'll only appeal to other tg members and not outsiders, but its something. I dont know if a simliar escrow account can be automated for paypal or not but you see where i'm going with this


once a bounty system is in play its not just the prize, but the challenge as well. Remember the frogger bounty rtm put up to beat the seinfeld score? cool concept. with a bounty system who knows what fun creative challenges people might come up with.


i hope tg will consider providing some tools beyond the forums that facilitate the community putting up bounties. Thank you for your time.

Comments
  1. Pat Larocque's Avatar

    Think this is a great idea!! Although I probably fall under the category of "none of these skills" that you described above, I would be more than happy to contribute with anything I can, whether it be small donations, funding etc. to help bring more people and exposure here!

    ThanksRogerpoco thanked this post
  2. Barthax's Avatar

    TG has tabled this idea themselves before - step 1: get the Tournament system working. :P

    LikesFly, ILLSeaBass liked this post
  3. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax

    TG has tabled this idea themselves before - step 1: get the Tournament system working. :P

    TG has provided the wheel, its our job to give them the squeek

    LikesBarthax liked this post
  4. Desidious's Avatar

    You'll still continue to obsess over RTM.

  5. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Desidious

    You'll still continue to obsess over RTM.

    Obsess over the awesome bounties he puts up!

    LikesFly liked this post
  6. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Yur reading my mind.


    Stay Tuned.


    :)

    LikesSnowflake liked this post
  7. GibGirl's Avatar

    We could probably at least start out with a Wiki page if people did want to start creating bounties for beating some scores. Sure, it wouldn't be anything like what TG could theoretically implement, but we could start things up without waiting for any dev work to be done.


    Edit: Actually, thinking a little more, I think there would be no better way to convince TG of the need for a bounty system than to actually be creating and claiming bounties via the wiki. Lets not ask for a system that we don't know would get much use, but instead show that we'd make use of it.

    LikesSnowflake liked this post
    Updated 12-24-2019 at 11:01 AM by GibGirl
  8. The Evener's Avatar

    I think a bounty could definitely help TG be "part of the gaming conversation." In the case of the bounty for River Raid sponsored by Garrett and me, we want to promote it as widely as possible and if that involves conversations about the bounty in other communities, great. The only requirement is that the run has to be submitted to TGSAP for adjudication, so whether someone becomes a TG member at the outset of the bounty issuance, or only registers to submit their run, it's all good. It's been a few years since TG has offered a bounty, so this "community bounty" is a baby step. For now, I imagine a wall announcement and a general forum thread. Certainly going forward if bounties become a TG-sponsored initiative I'd be interested in seeing how it evolves with other tools like wiki.

    ThanksGarrett Holland thanked this post
    LikesSnowflake, Garrett Holland liked this post
  9. Snowflake's Avatar

    one thing i've been meaning to do on the wiki is use my personal page more. i wanna list all my doubles, games i'd trade (i hesitate to say sell cause i'm not sure if that creates legal quetions for tg). i'm thinking once all such games of mine are listed, since i'm low on funds but high on games i can say something like "go to my wiki page, and chose up to X in value among my stuff" i would imagine other people are in my shoes too who want to offer a bounty but cant offer cash.

  10. RTM's Avatar

    I have a suggestion...unsure how workable this is but here goes. If nothing more it could be one more idea to say no to that does not have to be revisited again, or it could have a salvageable component.


    Ask Jace if either himself or someone from TG admin could set up a small bank account, say $1,000 or whatever the minimum balance is per the bank. Only TG would have control over this account. Give it an E-MAIL address of something like "Bounty @GMail.com".

    Second, establish a linked PayPal account.

    Create a "Bounty" thread whereby the gaming community can create independent threads per specific "Bounty" and post screenshots of their PayPal donations. Perhaps affixing a sequential numeric value within the title of each created thread "ex: Bounty #13 - River Raid Atari 2600 1-Life-Only Completion". Users would need to take care not to duplicate already-posted "Bounty" numbers.

    Perhaps create TWO (2) forum categories...one for open "bounties" and one for "claimed".

    All screenshot confirmations of PayPal donations to the account must refer to the specific "Bounty" (and bounty number) in question.

    Require that the creator of the "bounty" dutifully monitor the thread and in the very first thread continually edit what the running tally is of confirmed donations and unrealized pledges (i.e. those pledged but not confirmed as being donated)

    When the submitted "bounty" performance is posted within the confines of the TG website a link should be posted to the "bounty" thread thus achieving a timestamp in case multiple performances were submitted in sequence.

    Establish a governance that determines the criteria for releasing the "bounty" payment via PayPal to the claimant. In other words, it might be deemed to be successfully "claimed" even before the performance completes the formal TGSAP validation phase.

    Establish a protocol for informing the curator of this bank account that a payment matching the claimed "bounty" be disbursed to the validated PayPal account of the claimant.

    Last but not least for sake of back-end-maintenance, have the "bounty" thread itself moved from the "Active" bounty forum to the "Claimed" bounty forum.

    The actual posting of the performance to the TG database would therefore be secondary to the "bounty" payout.

    This assumes a lot...maintenance issues expected of TG at both the bank/PayPal end and regarding forum monitoring/maintenance...and thread maintenance by the originator of each "bounty". Doing so is not easy, trust me, but with a very limited number of such "bounties" active at any given time, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

    The real issue is from an accounting perspective and how this would be tracked as an asset on the TG balance sheet. TG would have to retain any interest accumulated on the account and no imputed interest would ever be paid out to a gamer.

    It also pre-supposes that all claimants have a PayPal account...it gets out of hand VERY quickly when multiple ePayment sources come into play so a benchmark has to be established up front.

    The above may be completely unworkable, but at least its a suggestion.

    LikesThe Evener, nads liked this post
  11. The Evener's Avatar

    RTM, were past bounties deemed official "TG bounties" by the TG administration of the day, or were they more the initiative of individuals (I think normally refs, with the exception of Mitchell?) operating within the TG community?

    Snowflake, could you point to your Wiki page? I'd like to see it as an example.

    I'll be honest, I've shied away from the Wiki page. In reference to the River Raid bounty (forthcoming), anyone is invited to cross-post it there, but I'm not really comfortable with the Wiki tool. I've always seen it as a platform for posting/sharing/ever-greening information content, and not really as a dynamic "conversation" platform. From what I can tell, it isn't set up to thread conversations on topics in a "forum style" for the simple reason that it's designed for a different function.

    LikesGarrett Holland liked this post
  12. Snowflake's Avatar

    I haven’t gotten around to using my page but here are others

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/wiki_index.php?title=People

    Also it’s a hard wiki page does additionally have an attached forum or at least it used to


    Gibgirl is the real one to ask but since you asked me that’s the best answer I can give

  13. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Yes I agree that a bounty system would be helpful and interesting for the site. It is something that I've wanted for a long time.

    Currently we are completing a TG front page redesign that is simple, more functional, and more reflective of the activity that goes on within TG on a day to day basis. That should be completed very soon, and then we we will be finishing up the the new profile page stuff - which incidentally is hopefully going to allow a TG wiki to be referenced/used as part of the "bio" information displayed on the profile page. That is why I created my TG wiki for myself. You can see it at www.jacehall.com

    There is some work being done on the dispute system for greater and easier admin functionality (deleting tracks, moving scores, etc.)

    There is also some work being done by @admin staff on upgrading our ad-tag stuff so that TG can have some back-end improvement there.

    Also I've been thinking of doing a "Dispute Review Live Stream" where I go over various disputes in process and discuss/analyze/accept disputes in real time.

    I think once the front page / profile / dispute stuff is complete we can spend time on implementing a basic bounty system and build from there.

    Hope everyone is having a great holiday!

  14. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener

    RTM, were past bounties deemed official "TG bounties" by the TG administration of the day, or were they more the initiative of individuals (I think normally refs, with the exception of Mitchell?) operating within the TG community?

    Snowflake, could you point to your Wiki page? I'd like to see it as an example.

    I'll be honest, I've shied away from the Wiki page. In reference to the River Raid bounty (forthcoming), anyone is invited to cross-post it there, but I'm not really comfortable with the Wiki tool. I've always seen it as a platform for posting/sharing/ever-greening information content, and not really as a dynamic "conversation" platform. From what I can tell, it isn't set up to thread conversations on topics in a "forum style" for the simple reason that it's designed for a different function.


    TG Wiki pages do have a "Discussion thread." It is currently set up to be a "COMMENTS" Tab that is at the top of each Wiki page, but if everyone prefers, I can remove that tab and make the discussion thread appear below the actual Wiki page. In any case, when you create a page a conversation can take place...

    ThanksThe Evener thanked this post
    Updated 12-24-2019 at 03:53 PM by Jace Hall
  15. RTM's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener
    RTM, were past bounties deemed official "TG bounties" by the TG administration of the day, or were they more the initiative of individuals (I think normally refs, with the exception of Mitchell?) operating within the TG community?



    RTM REPLY - There were several "bounties"...the ones from Billy Mitchell way back in 1999, my "Crazy Taxi" bounties from April 2001, then there were a series of "bounties" in 2004 and 2005...I forget if there were others.

    For one year (2004 or 2005) several other TG staffers added their own so there were a great many underway.

    My own "bounties" and those of my fellow referees were privately financed. TG's sole involvement was the forum with which to announce and track posts as they were made.

    Billy's from 1999, and then his 2005 DK announcement at ACAM, were his own BUT his 1999 announcement was made with an official TG-endorsed poster accompanying them so there was more of a TG presence behind them...should any be claimed they had to be validated by TG itself, so in that respect his were different than my own.

    And there is one more little known difference between Bill's "bounties" and the rest that I mentioned...and this is based on something that Bill himself told me...

    It was either for the 1999 roster or the ones from ACAM 2005, but Bill had taken out some sort of "insurance policy" based on the difficulty/likelihood of them being successfully claimed. We (myself and the other TG referees) never did such a thing, ours were out of our own pocket.

    Another gamer not associated with TG but known within TG circles took out his own "bounty" announcement many years back but these were borderline impossible to obtain...still, they would have been privately funded. However there were some "caveats" that made claiming at least one of them highly unlikely. See for yourself - http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/news/index.htm#12162005

    Here's a link to Billy's original "bounties" from 1999...I do not have a link to the actual poster - http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/bounties/RHS_1999_bounties/index.htm


    ThanksThe Evener, Conjured Entertainment thanked this post
  16. RTM's Avatar

    Small "bounty" facts...

    -> Dwayne Richard claimed the largest personally offered vintage arcade/console gaming "bounty" of $2,500 for reaching wave 100 in arcade "Joust 2". Although three larger "bounties" were offered...$100K by Billy for clearing the "Pacman" split screen, $12K my Mark Alpiger for breaking the "Crystal Castles" record, and $10K by Billy again for breaking 1.047M on DK at the 2005 ACAM event, and $10K by Mark Alpiger for reaching a billion on arcade "Star Wars" (a feat that would take approx 166 hours to pull off), none of those were ever claimed

    -> Never before was there an opportunity for TG to capitalize on pop culture as there was when the "Costanza Bounties" were created. Based on the fictional performances from the now-classic episode of "Seinfeld" a poster was commissioned by Bill MItchell to commemorate the special "bounty" that I had come up with as there was a lot of potential here due to the notoriety of both the title and the TV show. I'm admittedly biased but it is my favourite TG poster. Gamer Pat Laffaye I believe claimed the smaller of the two "bounties" for breaking the then-world record score, but it wasn't until a year or so later that someone actually broke the fictional "Costanza record".

    One last interesting fact...if you look at the scoreboard from that episode there are a good 6 or 7 flaws with it !! For starters, "Frogger" does not even have a scoreboard, there is no 100K digit, the sequencing of the scores is wrong, and since there is no scoreboard the top score disappears when the game is shut off at night. I forget what else we spotted wrong with it but it's amusing to watch knowing what we know about the game.

    Makes me wonder what the episode would have been like had George and Jerry dropped by that pizza place only to see George's pride-and-joy score about to be surpassed by either Pat or Don...I daresay that the fictional "George" would have found a way to interrupt that performance such as "accidentally" pulling out the plug !!

    -> A successful "bounty" claim usually is the result of a stellar performance the likes of which (up to that point) no one had ever seen done before. Here are some of the most memorable successful "bounty" claims included the following, in addition to Dwayne's "Joust 2" performance...and there were many more, so this is just a sample...

    New World Records
    Spectar
    Galaxian Part IV
    Frogger (the lower of the two "Costanza Bounties"
    Carnival
    Tuttankham (since beaten)
    Super Missile Attack (since beaten)

    One-Life-Only Completions
    Trog
    VS Goonies
    Pipi & Bibs
    Road Runner: Death Valley Days (SNES)
    Who Framed Roger Rabbit (SNES)


    ThanksConjured Entertainment thanked this post
  17. TB-303's Avatar

    What's the VCS River Raid bounty exactly and for how much so far? Maybe it should have it's own thread.

  18. GibGirl's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener

    I'll be honest, I've shied away from the Wiki page. In reference to the River Raid bounty (forthcoming), anyone is invited to cross-post it there, but I'm not really comfortable with the Wiki tool. I've always seen it as a platform for posting/sharing/ever-greening information content, and not really as a dynamic "conversation" platform. From what I can tell, it isn't set up to thread conversations on topics in a "forum style" for the simple reason that it's designed for a different function.


    No, you're right, the wiki isn't really the ideal place for forum-style discussions. That's why we have a forum, after all. :)

    I imagined the wiki being used to centralize the list of currently offered bounties. Thus nobody needs to navigate a long thread to try and squeeze out the tidbits of information. The forums can be used to discuss, but a wiki page could simply list the games, tracks, and bounties being offered. Maybe I'll do a mock-up to show what I was thinking.

  19. The Evener's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by TB-303

    What's the VCS River Raid bounty exactly and for how much so far? Maybe it should have it's own thread.

    It's been discussed in a Commando dispute, but we'll set things up shortly in its own thread. To recap, the bounty currently stands at $50 for getting a million points (when the game goes !!!!!!!! for the score) whether done on EMU, Atari Flashback, or original console. If the run is done on original console, the gamer will also acquire a NIB copy of River Raid if the submission is done on original console. I'm thinking of adding an additional bounty of $25 if the gamer can achieve the run in the neighbourhood of 3 hours 15 minutes, which is the rough length of time reported for the current million point score. If anyone wishes to contribute to the bounty, just post your contribution in the RR thread (coming soon)


    ThanksGarrett Holland, TB-303 thanked this post
    LikesGarrett Holland, ThroughtonsHeir liked this post
  20. Garrett Holland's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener


    It's been discussed in a Commando dispute, but we'll set things up shortly in its own thread. To recap, the bounty currently stands at $50 for getting a million points (when the game goes !!!!!!!! for the score) whether done on EMU, Atari Flashback, or original console. If the run is done on original console, the gamer will also acquire a NIB copy of River Raid if the submission is done on original console. I'm thinking of adding an additional bounty of $25 if the gamer can achieve the run in the neighbourhood of 3 hours 15 minutes, which is the rough length of time reported for the current million point score. If anyone wishes to contribute to the bounty, just post your contribution in the RR thread (coming soon)



    Just for the sake of clarity, the NIB River Raid bounty is not for getting 1M, but for starting the game from the beginning, getting from Section 96 to 102 on one life, TGSAP verified on the NTSC or PAL track only, no direct capture, no disputes for 30 days. Approximate score for level 96 = around 130K-140K.

    I have since offered another separate bounty, but it is a BS bounty because the task is not even possible: get from beginning of section 242 to the end of 247 on one life. Prize: US$1 Billion.


Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Join us