Snowflake's Feed

Snowflake
01-20-2020 at 01:51 PM
169 Comments
Rate this Entry

intellivision fix continued

continuing from this thread https://www.twingalaxies.com/intellivision-master/wall/7717/astrosmash-scores-must-be-removed-and-moved/page/3#comments which was meant to focus on astrosmash but really for consistency necessitates a larger discussion on intellivision fixes needed to rules. long story short, twin galaxies (not just on intlelivision) has sometimes changed rule (more than once) this creates an uneven playing field. Theres a need to try to fix the rules so that everyone plays under the same settings

some titles in particular that are most known in need of help are:

Brickout

Space Armada

Lock N Chase (I may have just added "look for a white dot" OR I added also "Start on Disc Speed" - I don't remember)

Shark ! Shark !

Night Stalker

Motocross

Astrosmash

Auto Racing

Skiing

personal note: i would also like to discuss beauty and the beast as theres an exteremly obvious easy to do leeching tactic the rules ignore which can happen on accident so tough to outlaw, yet the rules talk about a hard to do leeching tactic explicitly that will likely never be used. This makes me think the ref creating the track had no clue on the game and makes me fear the verifying refs were equally clueless -- though i hope not since the only hope here is a ref who was knowledgable to fill us in --- and the more troublesome leeching tactic could've been used. basically you can purposely fall of an easy building to lose one life, but then climb it to gain 2 lives. if theres anyway to find out if the top scores used such a tactic -- even if they only used it once or twice on accident i would really like to know.

Comments
  1. swaggers's Avatar

    I just want it noted and remembered that Al thought Disc Speed was so important that he convinced everyone that Default meant Disc Speed and Roger's Astrosmash record got rejected because it wasn't played on Disc Speed. And now that he can't get the WR, he wants it changed to be able to play however he wants.

  2. Intellivision Master's Avatar
    No that's not accurate. No one can hit 4.2 million on Astrosmash on disc speed because it was done on button 3 with unlimited pausing. So the score doesn't fit into a disc-level track. It ships be under “button 3, unlimited pausing”


    Let's pull up all of swaggers comments indicating that he can't compete on the skiing slopes so he wants to come down the hill 75% slower than everyone else yet compete on the same tracks. That's his only motive here.


    I already stated several times to push all these games to “choose your level”.


    I guess we'll start all-over competing on all these tracks.


    To summarize my points historically, no-one would take pride in having a great score, but doing it on an slower setting. Except for Astrosmash. There were also disc-speed scores in the DB.


    Myself and other Intellivision players didn't want to see the database reduced to “kiddy level” globally speaking.


    But I wouldn't have even uttered a word if I thought I would get even 5% of the BS flak that I had to put up with.,.,


    So please change all the tracks to “choose your starting speed”.
  3. Intellivision Master's Avatar
    @Jace Hall



    Please change all of the tracks on the list to “choose your starting speed”.


    The Peanut Duo and Evener can help you find the links etc....
    LikesSnowflake liked this post
  4. swaggers's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Intellivision Master
    Let's pull up all of swaggers comments indicating that he can't compete on the skiing slopes so he wants to come down the hill 75% slower than everyone else yet compete on the same tracks. That's his only motive here.

    Show me one.

  5. Snowflake's Avatar

    FYI this level of intellectualism is about the same level of professional work al used to convince Dave to **** up the database and ruin intellivision to justify his whims. He also arbitrarily changes the dungeons and dragons track to what he thought would be a better challenge despite my pointing out his error there and as you see that error still remains. Dungeons and dragons also needs a reversion.

  6. Intellivision Master's Avatar

    Really? SO while admitting that you NEVER player B17 Bomber, you unilaterally had a score thrown out and made new tracks yourself.

    What a F'ing hypocrite.

    I tried my best to "make sense" out of a compoletely non-sensical mishmash of a database. That's all I did. I don't deserve all this abuse.

    I never would have suggested anything. Due to the incomprehensive nature of the Intellivision database, it would have been much easier to compete elsewhere.

  7. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Intellivision Master

    Really? SO while admitting that you NEVER player B17 Bomber, you unilaterally had a score thrown out and made new tracks yourself.

    What a F'ing hypocrite.

    I tried my best to "make sense" out of a compoletely non-sensical mishmash of a database. That's all I did. I don't deserve all this abuse.

    I never would have suggested anything. Due to the incomprehensive nature of the Intellivision database, it would have been much easier to compete elsewhere.

    What are you taking about links please. Oh right you’re lying again just like how you lied to get your way before. And this “abuse” you’re getting now is only after you insulted for pages and rejected all reason and we finally snapped. Your default state is abuse and sooner or later people match it. Maybe you shouldn’ be such an ass if you can’t handle peiple talking back half as insulting

  8. Snowflake's Avatar

    I could forgive the arrogance hothead biased sore losing ways before I’m not so forgiving on lies. This is utterly unacceptable

  9. Intellivision Master's Avatar

    Guys go ahead, and make all the changes you want. Like I said before, I don't have the time.

    I only ask that you refrain from adding insults and abuse towards me.

    @Jace Hall These three members (snowflake, swaggers and The Evener) seem to have adamant opinions on all the intellivision tracks. Please follow their lead to fix the Intellivision database with them. I ask that you regulate comments to be restricted to fixing the tracks, and enforcing non-toxic commentary, insults and abuse.

    Thank You.

    Good luck guys.


    LikesSnowflake liked this post
  10. Snowflake's Avatar

    i think all direct points to what do have been discussed pretty thoroughly. but something else to consider, the after math. Should it be decided that any/all/one track remain on hard, knowing now the earlier scores were submitted under a different rule set, wouldnt that make it appropriate to open a floodgate of disputes to all those original scores that no longer belong on the tracks that al and dave rewrote? obviously no such disputes should be launched now while the decision is still in the process, but just something to consider about leaving any tracks as they are as their new rules invalidate the old scores.

  11. swaggers's Avatar

    Just to be 100% clear I personally do NOT want the rules reverted. I am fine with Disc Speed as default where the top score is at Disc Speed.

  12. The Evener's Avatar

    If we're tallying, I'm in support of a rule reversion as an appropriate remedy.

    I thought about my own wall post, but it seems overkill for a simple question. Jace, is the TG Wiki crawled by Google? In the course of looking into TG's history for this specific issue and past dispute reviews, I've identified information captured in the Wayback Machine that I think would be of possible use or interest to the wider TG community. I've been thinking about using the Wiki for TG History (not completely sure what to call it as it covers a range of topics), I was thinking of starting with links to the original TG scoreboard used to populate the Atari VCS, ColecoVision, Intellivision, etc. These systems generally had their own separate websites prior to 1999 like Snipercade that were used/blessed by TG and used them as conduits for TG-recognized score submissions until TG set up its own integrated database, which came together around 2001-2002 I think. There are interesting questions raised by this content that I can't answer right now - for whatever reason, a significant amount of Intellivision leaderboard content that was published in 1999 and found on-line from that era hasn't survived the different moments of migration into the scoreboard we have today. There are examples of players that I can cross-reference from the TG book, the early leaderboards, to today's scoreboard, but there are many more that I can't find on today's scoreboard, and haven't been able to ascertain why. An obvious point would be to delve into the early TG on-line scoreboard database circa 2001-2004, but since the tracks were only accessible through a user-inputed search, most of those tracks weren't crawled by the Wayback machine unless someone posted a link to a track in a forum post.

    Anyway, this is getting a little long-winded for what was supposed to be a quick question to see if the wiki is crawled by Google. If it isn't, I'll probably end up making parallel posts in the General Forum so some of those Wayback Machine links are crawled. For those interested, here's an example of the original TG Intellivision scoreboard circa 2001.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20011207221952fw_/http://members.aol.com/pbjurman/intellivision.html


    LikesSnowflake liked this post
  13. The Evener's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by swaggers

    Just to be 100% clear I personally do NOT want the rules reverted. I am fine with Disc Speed as default where the top score is at Disc Speed.

    In re-reading your post, you're in favour of selective reversion ie score where first place is *not* disc, revert to "players choice"?

  14. swaggers's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener

    In re-reading your post, you're in favour of selective reversion ie score where first place is *not* disc, revert to "players choice"?

    Yes. Where it can be definitively proven that a score is impossible to match on Disc. Not just opinion based on one person's ability to get the score. I'd prefer a more competitive score board then reverting everything to the easiest levels and turning games into who can stand to play them the longest.

  15. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by swaggers


    Yes. Where it can be definitively proven that a score is impossible to match on Disc. Not just opinion based on one person's ability to get the score. I'd prefer a more competitive score board then reverting everything to the easiest levels and turning games into who can stand to play them the longest.

    i understand the desire for harder tracks. i would've felt that better accomlished by new tracks. would you at least agree then that the scores done on easy should be disputed/removed from those tracks?
    at any point anyone could've made discspped tracks. i cant help but to think the reason to change the rules on the old tracks was to pad records with the old scores giving esi as opposed to a new track that would give zero esi


    theres a lot of compromises i'm open to, but whatever compromise is taken, i think people need to be consistent. if the rule is that the track needs to be on hard, then ALL easy scores, not just the easy scores that beat a person must be removed

    i find it wildly inappropriate that if an easy score beats soemone and prevents them having first it has to go, but if an easy score is below someone and bolsters esi that it has to stay.

  16. swaggers's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    i understand the desire for harder tracks. i would've felt that better accomlished by new tracks. would you at least agree then that the scores done on easy should be disputed/removed from those tracks?
    at any point anyone could've made discspped tracks. i cant help but to think the reason to change the rules on the old tracks was to pad records with the old scores giving esi as opposed to a new track that would give zero esi


    theres a lot of compromises i'm open to, but whatever compromise is taken, i think people need to be consistent. if the rule is that the track needs to be on hard, then ALL easy scores, not just the easy scores that beat a person must be removed

    i find it wildly inappropriate that if an easy score beats soemone and prevents them having first it has to go, but if an easy score is below someone and bolsters esi that it has to stay.

    Are you saying the tracks should HAVE to be played on Easiest? Because if it's player's choice then these scores have been beaten on Disc speed and setting a standard of Disc (that has now been in place for 2 years) is just how the rules have evolved. A third place score is still a third place score whether you can use the same skill setting now or not.

    You can't at this point make tracks for every skill level as there is no way to know what the old scores were done on. Al can have all the theories he wants about what was played on what but there is no proof. I can't do it so it didn't happen is not proof.

    Where we have gotten stuck is because of rules changes without proper research we have an Astrosmash score that apparently can't be beaten. The only real solution is to make it player's choice or leave it in a state of not being able to be beaten. How can you dispute it? It was valid in the past. It's pretty much been officially grandfathered into the track. If you move it a new track then every score that doesn't have proof of Disc speed needs to be moved with it. Period.

    Its a huge mess and there are really only 4 of us that seem to care at all.


  17. Snowflake's Avatar

    no im not saying that at all. i'm saying that if we change the rules to hard and remove scores done on easy that beat us then we should also remove scores done on easy that lose to us.


    we cant know for sure what difficulty old scores were done on, of coures i agree with that except is special cases. which is why i think it would be inconsistent to declare all scores that beat us must have been easy but all scores that lose to us must have been hard.

    i would also disagree "thats how it evolved". it didnt evolve at all, dave and al uniliaterally made a change that many people objected to at the time and continue to object to now. it didnt evolve, it was artificially crammed down our throats

  18. swaggers's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    no im not saying that at all. i'm saying that if we change the rules to hard and remove scores done on easy that beat us then we should also remove scores done on easy that lose to us.

    I don't know where the remove scores is coming from? I don't want any scores removed or moved. And I don't think either of the other two do. I think Al just wants the track rules changed as he doesn't believe it is beatable on Disc.

  19. The Evener's Avatar

    It's air tight that the change shouldn't have happened. "Default=disc" was proffered as a clarification or codification of how TG defined "default" historically. We know emphatically that it wasn't the case. The mistake can be traced back to the previous Head Custodian who shoutd have required more due diligence before pulling the trigger. Comprehensive rule changes shouldn't be made in that manner then or now. When it comes to the remedy, Jace definitely has a lot of different proposals he can consider. :)

    LikesSnowflake liked this post
  20. Snowflake's Avatar

    you're very polite evener and i respect that, but not doing due dilignece is an understatement. that makes it sound like dave just didnt know or made a mistake when in reality several of us pointed out the issues and were ignored. heck when confronted with the issues he said that he could just make the changes over email with al in private but it was a courtesty to let us see it all with the open posts. dave made very clear it was Als call and he was going to ignore any other input. he didnt just lack due diligence he actually mocked people for wanting to be heard and outright refused to accept the questions and complaints.

    LikesThe Evener liked this post
Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... LastLast
Join us