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Snowflake
06-05-2020 at 10:31 AM
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whats more impressive? holding a long standing record or beating one?

I think of this a bit.

if you have a record, to keep it simple, for lets say 10 years, and then someone beats it, but they in turn get beaten in a month, who was more impressive?

the person who beats the old record found a way to do something noone could do for 10 years, and if they get beaten so quickly it makes me wonder if the person who beat them learned from them. the person beating the record figured out to do what noone else had figured for a long time, and now others have learned as well

of course the person holding the record for a long time held something noone could take for a long time.


this of course gets even more apples to organges with tgsap. the person holding the record for 10 years was absolutely able to keep secrets whereas the peson beating it had to immediately share the strategy that innovated that noone else could innovate

also being tgsap i guess i'd have a bias as well coloring my deicsion as i'd rther brag about my scores ;), but i dont think i'm being biased as i'm saying i dont know. i think of both POVs alot and i really cant make an argument for either that i feel is logical enough

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  1. starcrytas's Avatar

    You could have long lasting records on a game hardly anyone plays.

    I recently beat some Ms. Pac-Man Maze Madness records that are long standing, but not many play it.

    I think if there was a ton of competition on a game, like let's say the Donkey Kong arcade record lasts 10 years, then the record gets beat for only a month, then both would be impressive in their own ways.

    I'd say the record that lasts a long time is more impressive if the game has some competition.

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  2. Tuffy64's Avatar
    I'd say both is satisfying, but really, they would both depend;


    Beating a really challenging score is probably most satisfying, as you accomplish what very few, if not nobody, has ever accomplished.


    Keeping a long record is a close second, but I imagine some days, you'll probably end up wondering if you could do more, or when someone will take it. The greater they are, the harder they fall. Nevertheless, still a rather personally historical moment.
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  3. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by starcrytas

    You could have long lasting records on a game hardly anyone plays.

    I recently beat some Ms. Pac-Man Maze Madness records that are long standing, but not many play it.

    I think if there was a ton of competition on a game, like let's say the Donkey Kong arcade record lasts 10 years, then the record gets beat for only a month, then both would be impressive in their own ways.

    I'd say the record that lasts a long time is more impressive if the game has some competition.

    good point. to make it more apples to apples lets make it about the same, as thats what i meant. correct you cant compare an unplayed game to a heavily played one.

    but lets use your example. whats more impressive, you who beat the long standing ms pac-man maze madness record or the person who had it? thats what i'm getting it. look at the same long standing record, and just compare the person who set it to the person who beat it

  4. Marcade's Avatar

    No one is interested in beating you at this time. Looks like you will have to go BEAT YOURSELF! :P

  5. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcade

    No one is interested in beating you at this time. Looks like you will have to go BEAT YOURSELF! :P

    you are quite correct that i rehooked my sears telegames to play the paddle games. i'm on kaboom and circus for now. but beat 'em and eat 'em will get a submission soon enough. give me amonth or two

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  6. starcrytas's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake


    good point. to make it more apples to apples lets make it about the same, as thats what i meant. correct you cant compare an unplayed game to a heavily played one.

    but lets use your example. whats more impressive, you who beat the long standing ms pac-man maze madness record or the person who had it? thats what i'm getting it. look at the same long standing record, and just compare the person who set it to the person who beat it

    I'd say beating the long lasting record with no help would be more impressive.

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  7. Barthax's Avatar

    Right now the typical "10 year" old record has no evidence for someone to learn the tactics from. So the one that surpasses it has had to learn the game without that basis. The person that surpasses the newly broken record has evidence of the tactic used. However, the evening factor is that most games have footage across the Internet already and so they're fairly even.

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  8. redelf's Avatar

    When it becomes impressive is when all the secrets and strategies are known to all and the game is mature (lots of competition) and then you grind and grind and break the record. If everything is known and same conditions as above are present and you have held the record for a long time and they can't beat your score then it's impressive.

    Having the record and you have secrets and you don't show your gameplay then it's not that impressive, the secret you hold might be some cheesy thing that if someone saw your secret they could break your record easily, so your feat isn't worth anything.

    It's when everything is known about the game that it becomes impressive if you hold or break the record.

    Sometimes though on games that require reflexes and freedom of movement and it's all about skill, execution, and time and effort you put in that makes it impressive.

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  9. Desidious's Avatar

    Considering if its from tg and how shady the refs and head refs were, beating it. The shady past with hardly any evidence isn't worth bragging about but beating a good "record" with evidence is by far the best!

  10. Snowflake's Avatar

    lot of good points being brought up, probably really shows more variables and therefore more questions than answer, meaning plenty more to think about

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  11. Garrett Holland's Avatar

    From the perspective of one such as myself who believes that, by default, pre-TGSAP scores never happened anyway, beating the score is more impressive. However, what I find even *more* impressive than both is the amount of people who have been convinced of the old scores' legitimacy without one single shred of evidence for *that* score by *that* player. I find that to be extraordinarily impressive.

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  12. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by redelf

    When it becomes impressive is when all the secrets and strategies are known to all and the game is mature (lots of competition) and then you grind and grind and break the record. If everything is known and same conditions as above are present and you have held the record for a long time and they can't beat your score then it's impressive.


    Ballz. Man, nailed it!

    Never been able to articulate that myself, but that's spot on.

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  13. Fly's Avatar

    I have scores that are almost 20 years old and I've always had the videos available online somewhere. So not everything 10 years ago and longer is hiding something. And MAME INPs have been available at other sites since the beginning of MAME.

    The past isn't all shady.

    And thanks @redelf Well said!

    Hec

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  14. Garrett Holland's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Fly

    I have scores that are almost 20 years old and I've always had the videos available online somewhere. So not everything 10 years ago and longer is hiding something. And MAME INPs have been available at other sites since the beginning of MAME.

    The past isn't all shady.

    And thanks @redelf Well said!

    Hec

    If that is the case then your particular scores (and MAME scores with INP files) do indeed have the "shred of evidence" that I was saying most others dont, and would therefore be excluded from the skepticism described. I purposefully included the "without a shred of evidence" caveat to avoid those with evidence inferring that I was including them. Looks like I failed LOL! I do that frequently :-/

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  15. Fly's Avatar

    @Garrett Holland No worries. I fail quite often as well. I was mostly bragging about my older records. Especially because back then they were fine with direct VCR recordings until I came around. Refs and forum members at other sites called BS and demanded more evidence. And BOOM! Video cam on me AND VCR/DVR recordings.

    Suck on that haters!

    Hec

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  16. Garrett Holland's Avatar

    I have yet to see your old records, but I'll say this for sure ... the way you move from two hands to just one on Track & Field without losing any discernible speed trips me the F out. Superhuman LoL!

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    Updated 06-05-2020 at 08:18 PM by Garrett Holland
  17. Desidious's Avatar

    @Fly 100% no issues with you, Hec. You've been a testament of both eras and how true talent should be shown and shared. I meant no disrespect to you or to those that have more than provided evidence of their talent.


    Keep being you, sir.

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  18. Intellivision Master's Avatar

    I can go either way on this debate. Unfortunately we're in an era where proving our scores is "essential". I therefore advocate for full evidence when a special score is achieved. It's too bad that we have to reveal our secrets ... but proving our scores is 1000 times more important than keeping the magician's secrets.

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