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Snowflake
07-02-2020 at 06:37 AM
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MAME and acceptable bias converage

The only "special treatment" and "bias" I feel are proper and acceptable is when some subs gets more attention and approved sooner than others. Of course people are gonna watch some things sooner than others fine and good, well i'd like to add a new bias i think is ok

MAME inp analysis. the mame submissions stall. As long as we verify gameplay, and an INP is included that can always be approved later, i'm gonna have a sack and approve scores from players i trust. This is not the same as old tg ref just letting any old score in, since the inp still exists to be analyzed later and disputed. bad scores will still be caught. but yeah, i'm willing to risk my cred that people who have proven themselves honest may make honest mistakes but wont purposely cheat

if the gameplay shows no honest mistake was made, setting are good, rom is good, then inp is only gonna help me catch cheats that i feel confident werent used and yup, i'll bet me cred on that

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  1. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Agreeing to disagree again, I hope, haha!

    You make great points, and frankly, I guess some form of resolution is needed.


    I have a couple subs I think haven't gone thru, on Mr. Do!

    I played two different variations of the game, Marathon and Tournament, and I feel VERY strongly that I used the right settings.

    Well, I have "felt very strongly" that I used proper settings in the past on a few things, when in fact, I had not.


    I think the dip options in MAME/Arcade are just something that needs a little more technical approval than like seeing the options menu on a more modern console.


    It'll obviously never happen, but I just think .inp analysis is probably a chore, certainly takes time at least, and should somehow be rewarded.


    Again, Snow, I DO understand what you are saying, and don't exactly "disagree", but I do rely on the .inp analysis, for my own peace of mind on my own submissions, even, I swear.

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  2. Snowflake's Avatar

    i'll tell ya, thats why i dont do c64 anymore. i think how joust is horse jousting game, but jouste is what we think of as joust. all sorts of weird names. i got burnt too many times. if i start voting wrong on mame and get equally burned perhaps i'll reverse course

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  3. Barthax's Avatar

    Minor point: ~2004 to pre-2011 TG kept the INPs attached to the scores wherever possible (there was an option to hide them from the public on a per-score basis). They've disappeared since & apparently weren't there in the data set when this era obtained it (2014).

    As for the vote bias: trust is key in TGSAP. Always has been. :)

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  4. GibGirl's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerpoco

    I have a couple subs I think haven't gone thru, on Mr. Do!

    I played two different variations of the game, Marathon and Tournament, and I feel VERY strongly that I used the right settings.

    Well, I have "felt very strongly" that I used proper settings in the past on a few things, when in fact, I had not.


    Heck, I had one go through that wouldn't even play back properly due to needing the NVRAM, since I hadn't set things correctly with that recording, and had no idea. I was contacted privately about this, and went back and submitted a better score with this fixed.

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  5. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax

    Minor point: ~2004 to pre-2011 TG kept the INPs attached to the scores wherever possible (there was an option to hide them from the public on a per-score basis). They've disappeared since & apparently weren't there in the data set when this era obtained it (2014).

    As for the vote bias: trust is key in TGSAP. Always has been. :)

    not minor at all. i was aware of this, but since i made a comment about ref days its makes total sense to stand up for the good aspects. my point was more to counter what i imagined would be the criticism of me just accepting things and parallels so i was heading that off as opposed to make comments that actually are about ref bashing. The history is appreciated and it would be swell if TG could recover that stuff

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  6. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl



    Heck, I had one go through that wouldn't even play back properly due to needing the NVRAM, since I hadn't set things correctly with that recording, and had no idea. I was contacted privately about this, and went back and submitted a better score with this fixed.


    OK, this may seem a strange thing to say-

    I am actually VERY happy in a way that mine haven't gone thru, it sorta makes me think most "know me", and where it's usually 100% fair to accept someone "knowing what they are doing", such as yourself, honest, people seem to know that I know that I am quite capable of mistakes, so even my very best of Friends aren't "automatically voting", they trust me not to trust me.

    (That's not *quite* right, but youknowwhatImean. I screw up.).

    :D

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  7. GibGirl's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerpoco

    OK, this may seem a strange thing to say-

    I am actually VERY happy in a way that mine haven't gone thru, it sorta makes me think most "know me", and where it's usually 100% fair to accept someone "knowing what they are doing", such as yourself, honest, people seem to know that I know that I am quite capable of mistakes, so even my very best of Friends aren't "automatically voting", they trust me not to trust me.

    (That's not *quite* right, but youknowwhatImean. I screw up.).

    :D

    No, I absolutely get it. I'd rather mine not have been accepted either. I'm glad people trust my submissions, but we all make mistakes. I'd rather it be caught in the submission process than later on.

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  8. Pearl2hu's Avatar

    Not fully sure what you mean Snowflake, is it you trust others more than others? Just curious.


  9. Barthax's Avatar

    I don't believe Snowflake has described blind trust*. Only that, in the absence of an INP analysis, if the video footage checks out, then trust plays a role.


    * Nobody has described it thus, just my interpretation.

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  10. Snowflake's Avatar

    both correct. I'm seeing the mame backup not resovling and i assume its due to lack of inp analysis -- which frankly alot of people were just blindly trusting the person who does the analsysi anyway

    so yes, i absolutley trust some people more than others, however, I am allowing that trust to factor in as far as not caring the inp analaysis wasnt done and that i cant do it.

    i'm treating mame the same way i'd treat any other emu score.

  11. Snowflake's Avatar

    actually a better analogy other than emu, might be to showing the board on arcade

    Most people demanding to see board, if you show them no board they complain. if you show them a counterfeit board, theyll accept. most people demanding the board be there have no way of knowing if the board they're viewing is legit or not. however, even without being able to verify the board personally, simply demanding it be in the video helps gives confidence that the person wouldnt risk being so bold with a fake, and also that if they are that bold they'll be caught donw the line by someon else

    so for me, i dont need the inp analysis, i just need to demand the inp exists at all. and yes, as for every other aspect, no trust, every other aspect verify.

  12. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl2hu

    Not fully sure what you mean Snowflake, is it you trust others more than others? Just curious.



    I'm willing to chime in!

    Yes, I am most definitely more trusting in some than others, but not a cheating worry, just their propensity for "making mistakes".

    I am most definitely in the category I am describing, but on the other hand, I have a handful of people I have known here for years, that essentially never make mistakes, real pros in their submission ability, and I am usually completely confident after watching a score run that they did it 100% completely right.

    Not naming names, but some just make more mistakes than others, and i am usually more careful when watching their submissions, no questions/regrets.


    So I don't think even Snowflakes "trust" we are referring to is as much "personal", as it it knowing the persons submission vigilance.


  13. Ragequit's Avatar

    inp. analysis should be like a paying job or somethin...i think it's that important

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  14. Snowflake's Avatar

    this is where passion comes in. i'll learn what i need to learn for atari or arcade. and as time goes on other platforms as well

    Utlimatley mame people are gonna have to protect and serve their own community. but hey we're all one big tg family right? i'm not a mame person, but i am tg, so i want to help adjudicate. as for analysis, honestly, i've considered learning how to do it, but theres so many things i want to learn something else always has to come first. at some point the mame players though waiting for score approval are gonna have to step up and learn to analyze their own stuff. but yeah, until then, as a tg ally, i'm willing to at least approve the people i trust (if theyre gameplay checks out) and thin the queue so that the analyzers can focus on other things

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  15. Ragequit's Avatar

    Analyzing your own inp's are allowed? I would think that the inp analysis would have to come from someone that has no affiliation with you...kinda wish you were more of a mame person, i'd like to see you make your budweiser tapper mame and arcade score a matching set! lol

  16. Snowflake's Avatar

    Ah well I said it the plural them analyzing their stuff hopefully meaning cross verify


    But honestly even self analysis has merit for ruling out honest mistakes and if they did fake the analysis then you’ve really got them

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