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Snowflake
06-09-2021 at 11:00 PM
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side effect of donkey drama

my odyssey 2 sound no longer works. i hadnt played in so long at first i thought the games just sucked and didnt have sound programmed in, then i remember they did. I just realized this after my last submission so no i wasnt trying to pull a fast one. also, no its not a concidence i bring this up after robbies submission. even though i honestly didnt realize at the time, once i knew i also had zero intention of disclosing it cause i just plain didnt think it mattered. Now that i realize it can matter to people, well i dont think my low ufo scores should be disputed, but i wont submit again if the community takes issue with it. This means one trouble maker out to get me telling me no just to cause me headache wont sway me, but even just one reasonable telling me no means i wont do it.

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  1. datagod's Avatar

    I'm going to abastain.

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  2. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar

    Frankly a non-sounding Odyssey2 whose factory parts failed is more original than one that has been since repaired. That being said I would abstain. Here's the beauty, though - if a lot of people abstain but several people accept and nobody rejects then you're probably fine to do it. So far I haven't seen that no sound means a rejection but that people have reservations about voting Accept. But if a person or two votes Reject when most are abstaining or voting Accept, it could cause a stink. That's a matter for the dispute forum, though, and if TG considers it a serious offense it'll overturn the scores and (maybe maybe) add something to the global rules about it.


    Hell I think I just talked myself into wanting you to submit.

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    Updated 06-10-2021 at 10:39 AM by bensweeneyonbass (Grammar)
  3. Snowflake's Avatar

    i'll still record and keep my options open. I think it would be dispute proof i as i doubt jace would feel thats reason to overrule the adjudicators but i also dont wanna win that way. maybe i'll play all the games first then submit in mass since after playing all games i might be more ok with submitting some and not others. you know, if only 2 have rng (and rng is the only reason weird things like that can matter) then fine ij ust dont submit those 2, if all have rng then i guess i submit all.

  4. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar

    I would caution you on boiling down the DK issue to something like RNG Is Related To Sound or vice versa. It's really not that. Robbie swears voltage affects RNG. Ok. Some people think the sound is indicative of the proper operation of the machine and is a critical element in a performance video. Ok. It's not a straight line from RNG to Sound.

  5. Snowflake's Avatar

    there is a link in that the sound there remidned me of this, but my comment here is mainly about me. without rng gameplay alone demonstrates everything, well, to expert enough people. i suppose in theory if someone cracks the rng (nothing is truly random, 'random' is just a word for determinsitc things we havent figured outyet) gameplay will get that too, but theres a pretty big gap there. I would entertain the complain the lack of sound indicates a bug which in turn could result in other bugs that somehow only affect the rng, its unlikely but worthy on consideration. however a pattern game for example, video is all thats needed. heck for pattern games we should probably even around emu as if its original hardware as long as the pattern checks out.

  6. Foot0fGod's Avatar

    The opening up to splicing is so much worse than the rng nonsense. I think some exception is given for live runs due to streams glitching and dropping packets. But for canned runs, audio being lossless is a must. Audio is the #1 indication of if footage was spliced together. And people have done everything from delete all the audio to chop out just three transition audio to splice in cover-up audio. It's just an unacceptably low standard because it's so easy to cheat. I feel like I'm about to get very good at DK inexplicably if this is allowed. If you can hide all traces of a splice, and you can hook MAME up to a CRT or anything that can alter the state of a board, you can piece together your run and splice it together. Easy game. And people have done it. And people will do it wherever that kind of thing is allowed, especially one of the most infamous high scores of all time that's already created one film.

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  7. Snowflake's Avatar

    thx jacob. that does make sense. i do think there are some difference in splicing for example a speed run where each level can be done as part of different runs, vs a point run where the points have to flow, meaning the later run has to have had the same points value of an earler so splicing only really makes sense with save states not original hardware. and at that point if the board doesnt rule that out is there any point at all showing the board? is there something i'm missing

    (note yes now i'm talking about dk lol and not my sub)

  8. Foot0fGod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    thx jacob. that does make sense. i do think there are some difference in splicing for example a speed run where each level can be done as part of different runs, vs a point run where the points have to flow, meaning the later run has to have had the same points value of an earler so splicing only really makes sense with save states not original hardware. and at that point if the board doesnt rule that out is there any point at all showing the board? is there something i'm missing

    (note yes now i'm talking about dk lol and not my sub)


    What if you play on MAME and splice in the showing of a regular board at the end?

  9. datagod's Avatar

    Sound is critical. Sadly the competitive gaming world has enough cheaters to make me extremely cautious. However, each adjudication stands alone and we adjudicators get to weigh several factors when making our decisions. In the case of Robbie Lakeman's recent DK submission, I decided to abstain. I have known Robbie for many years and I trust him not to cheat. I will abstain instead of reject. For other players, and other submissions, I would have to make a decision.

  10. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod

    In the case of Robbie Lakeman's recent DK submission, I decided to abstain. I have known Robbie for many years and I trust him not to cheat. I will abstain


    We all know that the odds are that it WILL get passed. He knows that as well. I hope it doesn't!!!!

    What really grinds my bones is that MUCH WORST submission packages have been accepted, and no ones complaining.

    Does anyone know if the DKF have accepted it yet?

    Lakeman is taking the p*ss out of everyone with this one.


    john


    .

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  11. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark



    We all know that the odds are that it WILL get passed. He knows that as well. I hope it doesn't!!!!

    What really grinds my bones is that MUCH WORST submission packages have been accepted, and no ones complaining.

    Does anyone know if the DKF have accepted it yet?

    Lakeman is taking the p*ss out of everyone with this one.


    john


    .

    you can ask them, though i'm curious why, TG makes its own independent decisions and doesnt rubber stamp anyone.

  12. Scott S.'s Avatar

    My recent VCS Jungle Hunt submission didn't have sound, but that was because my audio cable running to my pc became disconnected and I didn't realize it until looking at the video afterwards (I had sound during the game). The lack of audio didn't prevent it from being accepted, but I know in regards to Donkey Kong and MAME, the older versions of MAME didn't accurately reproduce the sound effects with some games (Donkey Kong being one of them). All the popular "60-in-1" arcade boards out there all run the same older version of MAME, and the audio for games like DK and Galaxian are dead giveaways.

    That being said, I doubt Lakeman would risk ruining his reputation trying to pull a 'Mitchell' with his latest DK submission.

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  13. Snowflake's Avatar

    first: our situations are different than robbies so i'm not surprised yours was accepted. that out of the way

    second: i also agree robbie wouldnt risk his repuation. plenty of experts are saying they believe the score is legit, but since robbie "thinks he cheated" he "attempted cheating" or some nonsense thats reason to get him. the experts seem to all agree its legit but have hteir own reasons for wanting it removed. plenty of otheres though i think reasonable find sound to be a potential concern yet also knowing robbie think its legit.

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