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Snowflake
09-20-2021 at 01:28 PM
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minestorm vectrex, possible issue

no no i'm not looking to cast shade or cause trouble the moment i'm back with disputes. the mistake may entirely be my own. 15 minutes before learning i was unbanned i finally beat level 13 (sort of killscreen) on minestorm with 160k, went on post bug screen to get 230k and i have my skepticism of the top scores. not accusing anyone, just suggesting maybe the ruleset we have and the rule set they submitted under may have been different


BACKGROUNG INFO
minestorm -- built in game -- has a known bug with level 13 once you pass it. i've seen on youtube and heard of the game crashing/resetting. for me in particular, i warped to level 15 where the issue was the mines stayed as well point/small mines moving when they should've turned into larger easier to see targets upon activiation. allegedly excessive scoring is possible -- and i wish to discuss this point as i believe the "excessive" scoring may not be that excessive considering where it comes from. anyway, its definlitey a bug, its why 'minestorm2" exists, its not truly a sequel its a bug fix that was sent out free to people who complained

scoring
each level pretty much has a fixed amount of points with only 3 caveats
1. if you die you restart the level, so you can squeeze in more points that way
2. a ufo comes ONCE (so no saucer hunting) and it drops mines. theres a small window where you can finsih the level before the ufo appears so the ufo is optional, and if it does appear how long it stays on screen producing new targets gives some wiggleroom too, but honeslty this shouldnt account for many points.
3. the enemies that explode and send a charge at you, you can destroy the charge or dodge it, destroying yields extra points. i suppose its possible i dodged so much thats the reason for my lower score

it would be a heck of a lot arithmetic but i can find the theoretical max score (not counting issues from point 2) before finishing level 13. Before i go through all this effort though perhaps @RaGeNyC or others are aware of some mistake i'm making

currently my suspicion is these top 4 scores and maybe the fifth as well, passed level 13. this is not accusation of cheating. they may have been improrted from a magazine that allowed, they may have been submited at a time tg didnt have the rule in place

anyway, i finally beat 13 this morning, was real proud of myself, and well thats why this is my first post back cause minestorm is my current focus.

Comments
  1. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Good to see you.

    Reading yur post now, I'll decide whether to agree or agree to disagree!
    :D

    Seriously, good to see you.


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  2. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    OK-all conjecture on my part, ain't looking stuff up, lol!

    First, the Vectrex has had flashcarts for a long time, surely back to most of those scores, I think even one of the earlier systems WITH a flashcart, don't quote me.

    Minestorm 2 was a fix, like you said, on the original built in version, nothing really "changed" about the game(I guess?).

    But I am pretty sure, like Berzerk, there is a "fixed" version available somewhere that doesn't crash(I only assume you know that if too much crap gets to flying around onscreen, Berzerk crashes...)(Pretty sure I had a "crashed" attempt in my video, it's easy to do, and mebbe all flashcart subs should have a "crash"...)

    So I'm guessing they may have used the fixed version, and to be fair in a way to them, mebbe was considered fair play at the time, I dunno.


    Regardless, that game is BRUTAL, notice I've never posted a score, sounds like you are doing really well on it, proud of you too!!!


    Good Luck figuring it out, I guess.

  3. Snowflake's Avatar

    the problem is, if they did use the fix (entirely possible) then that should be submitted under minestorm 2. also, fix or not, i waas suggesting the got those scores passing 13 with the bug you're sugggseting they got such scores passing level 13 with the fix, either way, the rules explicilty end your attempt if you pass 13, so that would still be against the rules. thank you though, its a viable option i missed, still against the rules, but at least would explain where the scores came fro.

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  4. RaGeNyC's Avatar

    I made the updated rules for the game sometime around 2006. I personally verified scores #2 and #3. Both ended after minefield 13. I had stepped down as a ref by 2013--The first place score is only a little more, so I don't doubt its legitimacy. From what I witnessed with Jeremy's #2 score, I'd say that Sam's 1st place score is very close to a max.


    (3 kicks @Rogerpoco lol)

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  5. Snowflake's Avatar

    wow. well then i'll have to consider if i want to get better at hitting all the bombs, or i just wanna go on running boards. thinking i might make a track to continue past 13 if it turns out to be fun

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  6. RaGeNyC's Avatar

    Excuse me, 4 kicks @Rogerpoco :p


    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    thinking i might make a track to continue past 13 if it turns out to be fun

    The excessive scoring could (or not) happen at any time though. If you want to take the gamble, go for it.
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  7. Snowflake's Avatar

    could you go into more detail on that? just how excessive is it?

  8. RaGeNyC's Avatar

    Similar to the scoring when Berzerk goes crazy...It's very excessive.

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  9. Ulisses Patriota's Avatar

    Glad you came back Snowflake!! :) A friendly hug.

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  10. thegamer1185's Avatar

    I think you are just trying to cause trouble...I've got my eye on you.

  11. RMacauley's Avatar

    My original Vectrex bought back in 1983 would sometimes allow me past level 13. It seemed like there was more chance of getting past it if I wasn't moving when I shot the last mine. The "warp screen" between levels would play, blink and play again then level 15 would start with mines that were mostly invisible. Turning up the brightness to the maximum helped a bit. At some point a few levels later the killscreen may or may not happen again. I don't remember what level I got to back then but the score was about 1.7M without playing too many extra levels so something screwy was definitely happening with the scoring.

    My second Vectrex bought second hand in the early 2000's always crashed at level 13 no matter what

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  12. Snowflake's Avatar

    thats interesting. i was wondering if everyones vectrex has an equal probabiliity of the different endings (crash/skip) or if some are more likely to be one way the other. if the ladder, that implies programming changes, which is weird to fix a bug and then not properly test to see it was fixed. i wonder, based on how many times you did it, if it was just a small sample size perhaps and you just got unlucky more with the second one?

  13. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar

    Welcome back homie

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  14. Scott S.'s Avatar

    The 1994 V3N3 issue of Classic Systems and Games Monthly has an article about Mine Storm with info about the mine fields past 13:

    http://www.ataricompendium.com/archives/newsletters/csg_monthly/csg_monthly.html

    Issue 1993 V2N4 has a score of 999,999 from Kurt Stone who claimed to have reached mine field 89.

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  15. Snowflake's Avatar

    interesting he mentions a prototype hack to help him explore. i also made it several levels past 13 but i did not get "game over" between every screen. i wonder if this is random, based on cart, or some side effect of the hack he used, and if so, if the hack had other differences, intentional or not which affects things. regardless, thx for the link, its interesting.

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