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I understand it from a marketing perspective. It's yet another kick in the teeth for producing inaugural submissions, however - even less recognition of the pioneer nature that this empty scoreboard requires.

[Edit:] marketing not marking!

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This change is to prevent the previous possibility of a user recording a performance, then creating a track that specifically matches that performance, then submitting that performance, having that performance get accepted, then having that performance automatically be considered a TG world record as well as be admissible to Guinness World Records.

Now with this change, for a track to be considered premium it must either be specifically approved by TG admin by request, or there must be at least 10 competitors on the track. Either of those conditions will then qualify the #1 position on that track to be considered a TG world record.

This has nothing to do with inaugural submissions.

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To both Matthew and Pete as well as the community at large, requesting that a track become premium is an easy process met with no resistance assuming the track requested is reasonable. I can't imagine that any track that either of you make requests on would be considered problematic.

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So basically since some games have no competition whatsoever on them, they mean less? I don't like the sound of that. Any track that is created can be submitted too. So what if somebody does want a specific track and they are the only ones competing on it, it is still a record. It just needs challengers. So I take it my Tecmo Super Bowl rushing record is not a premium track now? Why should it be, only took me like 20 hours to get everything to work out right to achieve it. This is off course just one example. Why not just remove the World Records Leaderboard? There are many people who have done the spamming of creating tracks and then claiming a record, but it is still a record isn't it? Tim Duncan is the only person in NBA history to have a quadruple double, but on here it would not be a premium record because he is the only one to have done it. I don't like it, but that's just my opinion.

Saying a track isn't a premium track without at least 10 submissions to it at least that makes sense. I feel like this just diminishes people's accomplishments. Out of curiosity then, how does the TG staff determine a track is a premium track then? Are there certain guidelines or is just what game happens to be in the now? I can say right now that many of the later level tracks in slalom don't even have 5 people submitted on them. Are they now non-premium tracks?

Originally Posted by Jace Hall

This change is to prevent the previous possibility of a user recording a performance, then creating a track that specifically matches that performance, then submitting that performance, having that performance get accepted, then having that performance automatically be considered a TG world record as well as be admissible to Guinness World Records.

Yeah, this is what I meant by a marketing reason. It is an obviously useful thing to do in given the relationship is something TG wishes to nurture. No complaint.

Originally Posted by Jace Hall

Now with this change, for a track to be considered premium it must either be specifically approved by TG admin by request, or there must be at least 10 competitors on the track. Either of those conditions will then qualify the #1 position on that track to be considered a TG world record.

Thank you for the clarification. I must have missed when the criteria was introduced.

Originally Posted by Jace Hall

This has nothing to do with inaugural submissions.

We differ in the interpretation of the effect it has had.

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Originally Posted by Max

To both Matthew and Pete as well as the community at large, requesting that a track become premium is an easy process met with no resistance assuming the track requested is reasonable. I can't imagine that any track that either of you make requests on would be considered problematic.

Not sure how ANY track is problematic honestly. There are a ton of tracks created by TG that have some serious typos or rules settings that can't actually be followed that have been discussed and have yet to be changed. Again, what clarifies a reasonable request? The track was created by someone for a reason, they already thought it was reasonable. It's not their fault it might be "popular" to the community.

I'm not understanding what the big deal was with how the old system was being done? I guess what overall benefit does this bring to TG and it's members? If somebody is number 1 on a track, they are number 1. They deserve it. Hell, I know for a fact right now that their are many records on TG that aren't even close to the best scores. ****, my Star Wars Rogue Squadron for N64 is the perfect example. I don't think any of them are the fastest, but on here they are. Mario Kart games is another good example. Some of the times posted to TG are very lack luster compared to the best. Just saying, of all things to change that need changing, why add another category to the mix of premium and non-premium tracks? Most people will simply start ignoring the non-premium tracks because they have clearly been stated by TG that they don't mean as much.

Originally Posted by thegamer1185

Not sure how ANY track is problematic honestly.

Other than what Jace noted in this thread, I don't think anyone would get resistance for any request. I've seen some obscure one off tracks requested by others turned to premium that were far from being considered popular. Of the requests I'm aware of, all went through rapidly.

Personally it seems like a time consuming approach on TG's end to handle it this way, but that is how they have chosen to move forward on it.

There is a thread somewhere where this concept was introduced that may assist here too. I'll see if I can dig it up.

[editing in] Here is one of the posts I was referring to:

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthre...n-User-Profile

I seemed to recall a blog post too and @spectre references it in the above linked thread, though only his most recent blog posts are viewable so I'm not readily able to dig it up.

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Blog post is right here:
https://www.twingalaxies.com/entry.ph...s-World-Record

I agree with @Jace Hall It's a good thing because we saw last year with the Guinness book one of the nonesense Donkey Kong scores (my opinion) got in there. Guinness gets a snapshots of all world records broken since the last snapshot and this new implementations is great for preventing people from creating very specific tracks only they can compete on and prevent everyone else from competing. And maybe get a shot at getting in the book.

The downside though is that all user created tracks are set to non-premium, even though, the tracks might have a good ruleset and good scores on them. I'm glad I'm not the one who had to sift through all those tracks and objectively choose if the track is a quality one or not.

The way they've done it is so that the track creator(s) can request the track be premium. I could imagine the track will be looked at them, quality wise, before it's set to premium.

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I guess what I'm asking is, what makes a track have more quality than another? I probably will implement this track this winter, a Super Mario Bros 3 track that is for a 100% completion, lowest score possible. It's freaking challenging as hell. Not mention you have to get lucky to get items required to actually get through some levels with the least amount of points possible. It's insane. But what makes my suggested track have more quality than say a track that is like (not saying ANY track isn't premium) highest photo of Dragonite in Pokemon Snap? This is a max out photo that is easy to achieve.

I guess what exactly is TG looking for in making a track premium?

It's hard to answer. I just think they want to weed out the bull**** tracks like:

Completing 1-1 on Super Mario Bros and your forum name on Twin Galaxies has to be spectre.

Or fastest death on Super Mario Bros 1-1.

Basically tracks that aren't inclusive or completely lack skill.

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Found the original TG blog post while sifting through: https://www.twingalaxies.com/entry.ph...TG-Site-Update . It was in April so no surprised I missed the announcement. It only now answers the question why I noticed ~half my records disappear from TG one day. Definitely kept me away in disgust for a while longer than I might otherwise have done so.

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https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.p...99&ref=fbshare

That is a "premium" track.

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Originally Posted by Lance

https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.p...99&ref=fbshare

That is a "premium" track. ��

At least he is actually doing something.....

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[QUOTE=Jace Hall;bt8383]This change is to [U][B]prevent[/B][/U] the previous possibility of a user recording a performance, then creating a track that specifically matches that performance, then submitting that performance, having that performance get accepted, then having that performance automatically be considered a TG world record as well as be admissible to Guinness World Records.

Now with this change, for a track to be considered premium it must either be specifically approved by TG admin by request, or there must be at least 10 competitors on the track. Either of those conditions will then qualify the #1 position on that track to be considered a TG world record.

This has nothing to do with inaugural submissions.[/QUOTE]

Jace,

Almost 2000 of my records is gone from Leaderboard because is not considered a premium track, what do you think about this, this is fair or unfair?

Why to spend my time dedicating to Twin Galaxies submiting scores, creating variations, creating tracks, adjudicating to earn SP points to submit new scores and don't see your record in the Leaderboard because is not considered a premium track.

Many peoples here submit few records, almost nothing or nothing, many of them only adjudicate, or post in the forum or read a news in the wall, many peoples don't spend his times like me submiting scores, but I like to submit scores, and I like to see my records in the leaderboard.

I don't care to Guinness, I am not submiting records to Guinness, I am submiting records for Twin Galaxies, if they are accepting poor records from here as a Guinness World Records is not a fault of the player, we can submit any kind of records if they are under the rules and accepted, right?

Would you like to be fair with the players? Make a second Leaderboard!!

Let this Premium Tracks for Guinness and make a Non-Premium Leaderboard for all other, everybody here deserve to have the records in first place, does'n matter if the records is poor or excellent! We are dedicating to make the Twin Galaxies better, so everybody must be recognized!

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Yall... just send a PM to Twin Galaxies requesting the track/game be made premium. Yes it is annoying, but they will do it provided the rules are reasonable.

Originally Posted by Siliconian

Would you like to be fair with the players? Make a second Leaderboard!!

Let this Premium Tracks for Guinness and make a Non-Premium Leaderboard for all other, everybody here deserve to have the records in first place, does'n matter if the records is poor or excellent! We are dedicating to make the Twin Galaxies better, so everybody must be recognized!

Wait! What? A 2nd leaderboard?

You are still #1 on the leaderboard even though the tracks is not considered Premium BUT it does not count towards your world record number in your profile.

My two cents, for what it's worth...
If only one or two scores have been submitted, it's hard to believe they are the best plays IN THE WORLD. You'd need a bit of competition to determine that, or get a reasonable idea. I've seen others refer to such scores as High Score, rather than world record. Makes sense to me. I (had) one score that was a "world record" and it no longer is. This makes it so much easier for me to explain to people. Rather than say that I have a "fake" or "BS" world record, I can say I have a high score or whatever. It always felt fake to tell people I had a world record when it was the ONLY score on the track, and I know at least one person who could beat it. I play for the enjoyment of it and to reach my personal goals. So my WR count doesn't matter to me. If your goal is to have the highest number of world records then I can see how this would bother you, but I'm okay with the change.

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[QUOTE=timhett;bt8459]My two cents, for what it's worth...
If only one or two scores have been submitted, it's hard to believe they are the best plays IN THE WORLD. You'd need a bit of competition to determine that, or get a reasonable idea. I've seen others refer to such scores as High Score, rather than world record. Makes sense to me. I (had) one score that was a "world record" and it no longer is. This makes it so much easier for me to explain to people. Rather than say that I have a "fake" or "BS" world record, I can say I have a high score or whatever. It always felt fake to tell people I had a world record when it was the ONLY score on the track, and I know at least one person who could beat it. I play for the enjoyment of it and to reach my personal goals. So my WR count doesn't matter to me. If your goal is to have the highest number of world records then I can see how this would bother you, but I'm okay with the change.[/QUOTE]

You are OK with the change because you have 0 (zero) world records and 4 other records, of course everything is OK for you, I understand your concern!
[ATTACH=CONFIG]35430[/ATTACH]

When I look here I see 929 world records and 2837 Other Records, so, what is this other records? What this means?

The correct should be: "World Records" and "Other Places"

Why a Leaderborad if your first place not count? If you have a WR alone or a WR with 5 more peoples this will count as a Other Record, because is not a World Records for Twin Galaxies, because is not a premium, c'mon this is ridiculous.

What will determine a record to be premium or not? Will I request for a admin staff and wait his decision? Is this fair his answer? Why my score should be premium and other member not?

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My apologies in advance for stating the obvious but, there are different motivations of why people submit their video game performances to Twin Galaxies. Motivations may include recognition by Guinness as a "World Record", competition with fellow gamers, archival of personal scores, and other reasons. Depending on individuals motivation, some will care about this change and others won't.

My major gripe about this change is the lack of transparency. Splitting tracks into premium and standard for marketing and credibility reasons is Twin Galaxies perspective. However, lumping all 1st place standard submissions with all non-first place premium and standard submissions is not transparent. While its not impossible to figure out which standard submissions you maintain a first place score on and which you don't, transparency in aggregate total would be a nice add for those members that do care.

For instance, could you add a line under the user name / profile that indicates the number of 1st place submissions on standard tracks. Basically, what I'm suggesting is something like this:

- World Records (Premium)
- Top Scores (Standard)
- Other Submissions

Since one path to transform a standard track to a premium track is by the number of competitors, transparency might be helpful to encourage top score members to incite competition. This could help compliment the "bounty" system when implemented by Twin Galaxies sometime in the future. While any specifics on the "bounty" system is purely speculative on my part, a member may offer 100 submission points as a bounty for a "Need for Speed" tournament. This generates competition to an otherwise non-competitive track and results in double digit submissions. The standard track is now a premium track. For those interested in foster competition within the community, more transparency will help facilitate what motivates them while still being consistent with Twin Galaxies goals.

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