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thegamer1185
11-15-2021 at 01:46 PM
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Pausing

I got my NES hooked up to the CRT last night. I was going to do some Duck Hunt. I know it's been done in the past, so I'll ask about it now. Is it allowed to pause a game for a quick video stop/restart? My web cam records for 3 hours, so I was thinking I would play for about 2.5 hrs (hopefully), pause the game, start a secondary recording device to record the length of the stop/restart of the webcam, and then continue playing. I don't imagine the process taking longer than 30s to a minute. Basically show the screen to match up the round/points to confirm its the same play. I know it says in the rules no pausing is allowed, but it was allowed for marathon runs. I also believe somewhere RTM said that non marathon runs did allow pausing solely for tape changing, but the player must continue play immediately upon swapping tapes. Yes, I realize there are no marathon Duck Hunt tracks, but I also believe people never thought someone would be playing for that long as well.

And this is where my recording limitations and the rules get me into trouble again.

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Comments
  1. sdwyer138's Avatar

    webcam lol. what phone do you have? I recorded 8 hrs on my iPhone before.

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  2. Snowflake's Avatar

    thats a tough one. it was historically allowed on other tracks, so would have to still be allowed there. i think the biggest concern would be we dont know how long the pause was. ideally, with two cameras that should be fine. pause, quickly take out a second camera for overlapping footage to prove the shortness of the break, then continue with the first camera.

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  3. Barthax's Avatar

    If there's overlapping footage to prove a rapid technical reason for the transition, I don't envision a problem. Doesn't Duck Hunt have a bunch of opportunities to perform these actions anyway - if it does then there should be no need for any explicit pause usage.

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  4. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by sdwyer138

    webcam lol. what phone do you have? I recorded 8 hrs on my iPhone before.

    I know! Kicking it old school. I guess I have never found out how long my phone/battery would record for? I would think it would last as long as I have memory available. It records so much clearer as well. I'll check it out I guess. It's really nice knowing the limits of the webcam.

    @snowflake, I would pause and then use my phone...or webcam pending the above statement...immediately after pausing. So the pause length would be easy to verify the length with both cameras and restart.

  5. sdwyer138's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185


    I know! Kicking it old school. I guess I have never found out how long my phone/battery would record for? I would think it would last as long as I have memory available. It records so much clearer as well. I'll check it out I guess. It's really nice knowing the limits of the webcam.

    @snowflake, I would pause and then use my phone...or webcam pending the above statement...immediately after pausing. So the pause length would be easy to verify the length with both cameras and restart.

    You can always have your phone plugged in while you record

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  6. starcrytas's Avatar

    I had my Ocarina of Time speedrun approved using the "tape swap" method. I can't imagine how many other scores in the database were accepted back in the day with this method.

    I paused, stopped recording, immediately started another recording, and then continued the run.

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/139733


    I would accept scores that did this, as long as the score and pause position line up correctly.

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  7. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax

    If there's overlapping footage to prove a rapid technical reason for the transition, I don't envision a problem. Doesn't Duck Hunt have a bunch of opportunities to perform these actions anyway - if it does then there should be no need for any explicit pause usage.

    There is a lot of quick in between rounds, but they are so quick it you wouldn't see the score adding up and round change, or I simply wouldn't have time to record with another camera. I could easily stop/start my webcam by clicking the mouse in time, but then you would have the very small time lapse missing something. You can pause any time. So I figured if I paused immediately after shooting the last duck in a round, you would do the video stop start, you could the see the score/round change from both videos.

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  8. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185


    There is a lot of quick in between rounds, but they are so quick it you wouldn't see the score adding up and round change, or I simply wouldn't have time to record with another camera. I could easily stop/start my webcam by clicking the mouse in time, but then you would have the very small time lapse missing something. You can pause any time. So I figured if I paused immediately after shooting the last duck in a round, you would do the video stop start, you could the see the score/round change from both videos.


    You need to teach your kids to do the swap. ;)

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  9. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax



    You need to teach your kids to do the swap. ;)

    Every single time I involve the wife/kids, for some reason they forget how to press a button. It's ridiculous. I'd rather mess it up myself, haha

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  10. Blackflag82's Avatar

    I echo Barthax, as long as the paused footage overlaps with the play footage, it'd be fine to me.

  11. sdwyer138's Avatar

    I'll just throw this out here...

    The pause for swapping tapes rule was made in an era when people were recording on VHS tapes where there is a clear technical limit to how much you can record at one time.

    Its 2021 and we have the technology to record for hours upon hours now. Adjudication and submission expectations should evolve with that technology.

    Taking a pause of a even minute or two just to change recording devices can give the player a much needed mental and physical reset and approach the game refreshed - a benefit that a player with a recording device made in this century cannot take advantage of.

    To make your submission you have to buy: a Nintendo, a Zapper, a Duck Hunt game, a television, and a house with electricity. So why not just buy an appropriate recording device too? If you have a smart phone made in the last 5 years, that's more than sufficient.

    Quit trying to bend the rules.

    Updated 11-15-2021 at 02:40 PM by sdwyer138
  12. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by sdwyer138

    I'll just throw this out here...

    The pause for swapping tapes rule was made in an era when people were recording on VHS tapes where there is a clear technical limit to how much you can record at one time.

    Its 2021 and we have the technology to record for hours upon hours now. Adjudication and submission expectations should evolve with that technology.

    Taking a pause of a even minute or two just to change recording devices can give the player a much needed mental and physical reset and approach the game refreshed - a benefit that a player with a recording device made in this century cannot take advantage of.

    To make your submission you have to buy: a Nintendo, a Zapper, a Duck Hunt game, a television, and a house with electricity. So why not just buy an appropriate recording device too? If you have a smart phone made in the last 5 years, that's more than sufficient.

    Quit trying to bend the rules.

    I understand the sentiment but the break can just as easily break any "in the zone" the player may have had.

    We're in 2021 and many Android devices still default to 10 min maximum recording and even if the operator fixes that problem, there's a 2GB maximum to the file size without it becoming corrupt. :P

  13. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by sdwyer138

    I'll just throw this out here...

    The pause for swapping tapes rule was made in an era when people were recording on VHS tapes where there is a clear technical limit to how much you can record at one time.

    Its 2021 and we have the technology to record for hours upon hours now. Adjudication and submission expectations should evolve with that technology.

    Taking a pause of a even minute or two just to change recording devices can give the player a much needed mental and physical reset and approach the game refreshed - a benefit that a player with a recording device made in this century cannot take advantage of.

    To make your submission you have to buy: a Nintendo, a Zapper, a Duck Hunt game, a television, and a house with electricity. So why not just buy an appropriate recording device too? If you have a smart phone made in the last 5 years, that's more than sufficient.

    Quit trying to bend the rules.

    There it is. Knew there would be some kind of comment like this. Went well for a few comments anyway. Makes me wonder why I even asked. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

    I'm trying to bend the rules now? A recording rule was already in place, I know for a fact not many people actually know about that rule because it's not in the rules and guidelines, and I'm trying to bend the rules? Come on man, I get that you don't care for me and how I see things, but you are just trying to start **** by even saying that. BTW, I never said I wasn't going to use my cheap ass $800 phone (I know, I'm fucking cheap), I said I don't know the recording limits on it like I do my web cam that records for 3 hrs. Also, why would someone who has been locked in to a precision game like Duck Hunt want to stop playing it after 3 hours for recording purposes? Pretty tired of the other BS to be honest.

    Any other reasons I am trying to **** people over? Let's just get it out of the way now. Tom Votava had the gun pressed against the screen when he played, are you going to tell me I have to play the game like that as well because he did? Seriously, air that **** out now, I'm tired of dealing with it.

  14. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185

    Tom Votava had the gun pressed against the screen when he played, are you going to tell me I have to play the game like that as well because he did?

    please dont try to be the next tom

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  15. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar

    I'm just gonna say give it a shot because I see both sides to this - back when there were greater limitations to how you could record footage a pause-and-swap was looked at much more favorably, and it's been allowed before so there's some variety of precedent in there even though precedent does not always dictate a concrete rule for all time. However, we have a modern set of Global Rules and Guidelines that have come into effect long after VHS camcorders and VCRs were the primary medium of recording, and those GRGs say pausing is generally disallowed unless provided for by specific track rules.


    My real answer involves you getting something that can record forever, even if it's lo-fi. Just keep a "room cam" running constantly and have a different device getting your close-up or hi-fi footage that would be the one that needed a pause-and-restart. That way there truly is a full and continuous video of the whole performance. With this being a light gun submission you should be getting a wide shot anyway showing the gun at all times and all that as per the rules.


    My final question is this - what program and webcam are you using? It sounds like the program is what needs stopped and restarted not the webcam. You may just need to try a new program that can record indefinitely.


    EDIT: Virtually all of my submissions have been recorded using a webcam btw it's still a perfectly valid device as it interfaces with a computer and provides massive amounts of storage space because of that. I've never pushed the limits of OBS past an hour or two, so maybe that kicks off on you too at some point, but I'm "sure" there are programs out there that'll just keep on trucking.

  16. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar

    As for light gun games and gun distance - I personally founded Minimum Distance tracks for Duck Hunt and Tom personally came to TG to say on my wall that he did in fact have the gun right up against the screen. I founded those because there was interest at the time in having a track like that to foster a more restrictive competition style. That's neither here nor there on the pausing question but FWIW it doesn't really matter at this point how far you stand from the screen as there's no general distance rule for all light gun games and long as you comply with the rules of the track you're submitting to.

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  17. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    if there is an overlap between the 3 recordings (2 from the webcam and 1 from the cellphone) I have no problem at all voting Yes. I don't think Kyle is trying to bend the rules, but I also agree with Sean, almost any phone is able to record for hours and hours now so, why complicate the process?

    An $800 cellphone is not cheap at all (unless you meant $80), I recently bought a used iphone for $350, it works perfectly and it is able to record from 720p up to 4k, I'm sure your phone is perfectly capable of recording at good quality for lots of hours. You can adjust the quality so the file doesn't get too big. And if that is not enough you can also compress it later on your computer using free software. This to me seems to be a much simpler method than the one you are proposing. Don't get stucked with old devices if you already have a better one, you just need to start using it.

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    Updated 11-16-2021 at 10:28 AM by Pixe Sukola
  18. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Apparently everyone missed the part where I said I simply hadn't tested my phones video limitations haha, and that I was going to test my phone and see how long it records. I was simply asking because IF my phone has a limit, the question has already been answered and I could use the overlapping method if needed.

    @bensweeneyonbass ,it probably is the software itself that is restricting the record length. I had OBS at one point, or know it's easy to find, I simply haven't tested it.

    I absolutely don't want to do the pause/overlap method, but if that's the way it has to be then that's what I'll do. Thanks for the input everyone.

  19. Ragequit's Avatar

    Pausing for the purposes of starting a new video because you're running out of recording time is the only time when pausing should be allowed. Because it deals with something that is important to TG's ability to adjudicate, (i.e. the recorded performance). Just as long as the pause is only for that and we can see it. And if it has been allowed in the past for this purpose then it's allowed and so perhaps maybe the global rules should be adapted to allow for this exception? Like it was adapted before to allow for everdrives and usb loaders and what not, even though the rules say you can only use official game hardware and software...

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