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thegamer1185
09-03-2019 at 03:00 PM
61 Comments
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Can you dispute a rejected score??

I only ask because I'm pretty sure @starcrytas and i got hosed on this one. The video with the run is there, clearly displaying the score submitted.

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/208914

@SincerelyFranny , can this be corrected?

Also on that note, these submissions where rejected because the console is soft modded yet I believe we have allowed modded Wii, Flash carts submissions to be acceptable?? I'm OK one way or the other, but how can we just pick and choose? It's either allowed, or it's not. To me, knowing what I know about Everdrives/Flash carts and soft modded consoles and the fact that they have definitely been allowed in TGSAP already, these runs should have been accepted. Just don't know what happens when there is nothing written in the rules about this stuff.

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/199351

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/197409

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/197405

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/196838

Comments
  1. Snowflake's Avatar

    this has long been a question of @lexmark over a don hayes dig dug score so tagging him

    the functionality doesnt exist. resubmitting would effectively be a work around. asking admin to overtun a reject is pretty close to asking admin to be a referee.

    of course i'm just stating how things are combined with my opinion. i cant speak for admin if they plan to change this.

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  2. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    I'm good with modded consoles, just not region-modded, but modded consoles and everdrives are apples and oranges, don't really belong in the same conversation.

    Again, I'm ok, I think, with the issue you are talking about with the specific mod, but also again, the validity of everdrives has nothing to do with this conversation, modded consoles are a different thing altogether, doesn't seem right to think to automatically parent modded consoles just because flashcarts are accepted.

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  3. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    this has long been a question of @lexmark over a don hayes dig dug score so tagging him

    the functionality doesnt exist. resubmitting would effectively be a work around. asking admin to overtun a reject is pretty close to asking admin to be a referee.

    of course i'm just stating how things are combined with my opinion. i cant speak for admin if they plan to change this.

    That makes sense. Punish the guy who actually voted correctly. They can just delete the entire thing, make it like it never happened, and Matthew would have to resubmit and I would have to revote. Kind of inconvenient but much better than the current situation where I take a CR hit and I'm sure so did Matthew and a few others who actually watched the second video. It's not like any evidence is allowed to be added after a submission clears the queue so its very easy for Franny/Admin to at least correct all changes. It's 17 seconds. Hell Bill, you could watch the video and say, "yep, this is a mistake."

  4. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerpoco

    I'm good with modded consoles, just not region-modded, but modded consoles and everdrives are apples and oranges, don't really belong in the same conversation.

    Again, I'm ok, I think, with the issue you are talking about with the specific mod, but also again, the validity of everdrives has nothing to do with this conversation, modded consoles are a different thing altogether, doesn't seem right to think to automatically parent modded consoles just because flashcarts are accepted.

    I suppose so. I could see changing regions would be a bit different. Allowing a console to play burnt discs is exactly like an everdrive. And I believe the WII thing was Matt Felix had submissions go through using a flash drive or USB stick with games on it.

  5. GibGirl's Avatar

    As far as the modded console thing goes, I think we need to have the discussion about that particular mod, the impact it has on the system and the games, and go from there. It feels like mods like that need to be talked through and understood before people are going to get on board.

    After the discussion has completed, we can get all the info on the wiki and just reference it in the future when people have questions.

  6. thegamer1185's Avatar

    @sinc"> @jace"> @sin">@SincerelyFranny ,

    Updated 09-03-2019 at 03:34 PM by thegamer1185
  7. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185


    I suppose so. I could see changing regions would be a bit different. Allowing a console to play burnt discs is exactly like an everdrive. And I believe the WII thing was Matt Felix had submissions go through using a flash drive or USB stick with games on it.


    I still say they are different, but based on what you said, not as different as mebbe I was thinking, to be fair.

    Region modded, no, but if the mod is simply to allow games to be played, it's not that different.

    It IS different!!!

    :P

    But not that different.

    :)


  8. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl

    As far as the modded console thing goes, I think we need to have the discussion about that particular mod, the impact it has on the system and the games, and go from there. It feels like mods like that need to be talked through and understood before people are going to get on board.

    After the discussion has completed, we can get all the info on the wiki and just reference it in the future when people have questions.

    Problem is, there have already been many submissions accepted without a discussion. I brought this modded stuff up a few years ago and it was always "it would never be allowed"....and now it is? But it isn't?

  9. GibGirl's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185

    Problem is, there have already been many submissions accepted without a discussion. I brought this modded stuff up a few years ago and it was always "it would never be allowed"....and now it is? But it isn't?

    Oof, that's rough to submissions rejected due to a mod that was previously acceptable. We definitely need to get better at tracking and collecting this information, and then sharing where to find the community's decisions.

    As an example of what I was thinking, some basics I've got on the wiki for the Sega Saturn: https://www.twingalaxies.com/wiki_index.php?title=Platform:Sega-Saturn - I do need to go track down the threads where this was first discussed and accepted, and link to it.

  10. starcrytas's Avatar

    I must have overlooked this notification.

    Have any scores in the past that got unfairly rejected been overturned to be accepted?


    I've been submitting scores on a modded Wii, whether it be off an official disc or off a USB, for my entire time here at TG.

    If the games ran differently, then surely someone would have noticed by now.

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  11. starcrytas's Avatar

    Now that I think about it, what if people blind voted and saw the "I'm voting no posts" instead of watching the additional evidence?

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  12. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by starcrytas

    I must have overlooked this notification.

    Have any scores in the past that got unfairly rejected been overturned to be accepted?


    I've been submitting scores on a modded Wii, whether it be off an official disc or off a USB, for my entire time here at TG.

    If the games ran differently, then surely someone would have noticed by now.

    I know it. And I'm perfectly OK with it because I also have a modded WII that uses a Hard Drive. It's the same as an Everdrive, just need a soft mod to run them. I'm not trying to throw you under the bus, but people are voting yes on some, then some they don't. I get dinged, bring it up, nothing seems to ultimately get solved. Rinse and repeat.

    As for a score being rejected and then overturned to be accepted question, I don't think they have. But they should just simply be removed entirely from existence so things are reset. It's not even a question your run is a "YES" but it rejected and I'm sure more than one got dinged for voting correctly by actually watching the video.

  13. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by starcrytas

    Now that I think about it, what if people blind voted and saw the "I'm voting no posts" instead of watching the additional evidence?

    Hahaha, are you seriously asking me if that is what happened? You silly goose! That's exactly what happened. They read the first comment, voted no, and went on about their day.

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  14. starcrytas's Avatar

    Those other submissions linked should have been accepted.

    I'm allowed to play Mario Kart Double Dash!! off of a flash drive, so why shouldn't those PS2 submissions that loaded the game off a flash drive?


    Here's a tutorial for the PS2 mod:


    It's like an Everdrive for PS2.

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    Updated 09-03-2019 at 03:49 PM by starcrytas
  15. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185


    I know it. And I'm perfectly OK with it because I also have a modded WII that uses a Hard Drive. It's the same as an Everdrive, just need a soft mod to run them.


    That's where, like it or not, it's different.

    On an everdrive, the teeth of the cart are involved in putting the game onscreen, via the same process that a real cart works on the system.

    "Images" are images, I agree, but using a USB to play a CD/DVD based game on a DVD based system is NOT the same as an Everdrive.


    Again, is it ok?

    Yes, probably!


    But using already accepted everdrives to legitimize modded consoles is a crutch, I'm just telling you.

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  16. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by starcrytas

    Those other submissions linked should have been accepted.

    I'm allowed to play Mario Kart Double Dash!! off of a flash drive, so why shouldn't those PS2 submissions that loaded the game off a flash drive?


    Here's a tutorial for the PS2 mod:


    It's like an Everdrive for PS2.


    Lol, I'm sold- I looked a little more into this, I'll unlazy and do this soon, I need some more PS2 ESI!!!

    :)

  17. timmell's Avatar

    Once again there is no authority here at @TWIN GALAXIES . Creating a unfair environment for different submissions based on the random adjudicators who voted YES or NO. Twin Galaxies needs to still set the rules and regulations on what is accepted and what is not. Soft modding, Everdrives, etc. AND ACTUALLY ENFORCE IT! They need a commissioner to act as a rule committee and keep it simple for the real adjudicators and blind voters around here if they want to build creditability in the TGSAP.

    Tagged @Jace Hall as this is a good subject for State of the Galaxies.

  18. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Techincally, since it's been allowed in TGSAP more than once, it's going to be hard to say it's not allowed at this point. Absolutely agree. I've been asking for a rules and policies update for years now. Exactly for this reason. Instead of having a debate over it, we could all just tell the person who didn't know to read the rules and policies page. But we can't do that. All this stuff is you have been here long enough you know it, or it just causes confusion again later on.

  19. GibGirl's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by timmell

    Once again there is no authority here at @TWIN GALAXIES . Creating a unfair environment for different submissions based on the random adjudicators who voted YES or NO. Twin Galaxies needs to still set the rules and regulations on what is accepted and what is not. Soft modding, Everdrives, etc. AND ACTUALLY ENFORCE IT! They need a commissioner to act as a rule committee and keep it simple for the real adjudicators and blind voters around here if they want to build creditability in the TGSAP.

    Tagged @Jace Hall as this is a good subject for State of the Galaxies.

    Very good subject for SOTG, see how Jace feels about approaching this. Is this something we should see about picking up in the community? Maybe that could be a new approach for TG to start moving toward in the future - empowering the TG community to manage more of the leaderboards in this way.

  20. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl


    Very good subject for SOTG, see how Jace feels about approaching this. Is this something we should see about picking up in the community? Maybe that could be a new approach for TG to start moving toward in the future - empowering the TG community to manage more of the leaderboards in this way.

    We do manage it by using TGSAP. The problem is TG needs to make a ruling on what we are allowed or not allowed to do in our submissions. Essentially, this ENTIRE discussion about mods and flash drives is absolutely, 100% NOT ALLOWED according to rule number 1 in the Help and Tutorials section/General Gameplay and Global Rules Guidelines. TG hasn't updated with the times. Update them with what is being allowed. The community has the power. This has been said as much by Jace ever since TGSAP was put into place. We vote as we see fit. The problem is nothing is documented or updated based on these results by TG. We have a wiki page, but then what is the point of TG even still posting their guidelines?

    Using original of anything just doesn't apply anymore except for mainly consoles. We all know it. Sooner than later, this won't even be possible to do. TG can still be keeping the integrity of the leaderboards and gaming while advancing with the times and technology we live in. Think about this; How is a person ever supposed to compete against an Atari or Arcade store if in 50 years they no longer work? I'll bet sooner or later EMU and Original get combined because it just won't be possible without playing on an EMU.

    Either way, Help and Tutorials needs a major update.

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