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thegamer1185
11-18-2019 at 03:07 PM
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Disputing and no evidence

If there is one thing TG should learn from the recent Zelda dispute, it should be that ANY video evidence...more like any evidence of any kind to support a score in the database that TG has in it's possession should be uploaded to the website and attached to it's score immediately. Rodrigo has the Zelda tape but refused to submit (his choice) which would have solved that dispute as soon as he uploaded...either valid or invalid. Now disputes are being made on MAME scores that don't have INP files because TG removed then...so someone said somewhere.

Regardless, TG should just get every bit of evidence they have and put it on the website ASAP. Just upload it and let us sort out what score and player it belongs it too. As long as it's visible to the community it doesn't matter if they tapes ever get attached to a score, at least they are there. Its only a matter of time before TG has the evidence in THEIR hands, a score is disputed and removed, and TG then finally gets around to uploading all the evidence in their possession and realizing they had the evidence to support the score the whole time. Don't know about anyone else, but that would look really fucking bad on TG if that ever happens. And their only excuse could be "resources" or whatever other systems they implemented before hand.

The Zelda dispute isn't the greatest example but it does prove a point. The evidence still exists but won't be uploaded. TG has lots of evidence supporting scores but they don't know what scores they belong too so they aren't going to upload them right now because it would take resources to do so and which score they belong too. With a dispute system that seems to be getting more ramped up in finding fraudulent scores, holding back on uploading what they do have seems to be a huge mistake waiting to happen. Not to mention Jace seems to be quite worried about lawsuits against TG because of the dispute system, just seems like a no brainer at this point to upload everything. It would be a pretty easy lawsuit to win against TG if all I have to do is say "Well, TG had the evidence but didn't provide it to support my score and my score was removed because of it. Whether they withheld the evidence on purpose or not is irrelevant, they had it and failed to provide it."

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Comments
  1. Snowflake's Avatar

    i like the idea, and others have suggested it. jace has already turned it down. something about legal reasons, if he uploads something on the tape that wasnt meant to be as part of a submission for example. also the person who does the uploading can be accused of tampering.

    i still agree it should happen, just pointing out its already been requested and turned down.

  2. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Lawsuits lol

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  3. Fly's Avatar

    I'll take the blame for them not converting and uploading. I sent 6 and 8 hour tapes that looked like this and who knows what's in between and after some of my records. LOL! Sorry, not sorry.

  4. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo

    Lawsuits lol

    well rumor has it rudy used to send rtm his video taped over ****, so there'd be **** scenes between each record.
    i also laugh at the idea of someone suing, but jace is at least right there'd be people making frivolous complaints and threats of lawsuits. heck you cant even dispute a record or have a different opinion without someone claiming they'll sue you

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  5. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Just try and picture for one minute a lawyer trying to explain level 9 spawn patterns on Zelda for the NES to a jury.

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  6. Snowflake's Avatar

    if the whistle goes from stage 9 to six

    you must acquit

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  7. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake


    well rumor has it rudy used to send rtm his video taped over ****, so there'd be **** scenes between each record.
    i also laugh at the idea of someone suing, but jace is at least right there'd be people making frivolous complaints and threats of lawsuits. heck you cant even dispute a record or have a different opinion without someone claiming they'll sue you


    Lol, I'm serious, and I know this is, "Oh, yeah, right..."

    I have one old vhs tape of me playing with a band, taped by another bands guitar players Mom and given to me later, and every so often it would break into some softcore HBO stuff, lol, people would look at me like a perv, and TBH I really couldn't explain it...

    Someone finally told me that it was most definitely...bleed under, I guess, the stuff that was popping up was on the tape before our show was recorded.


    I just kept thinking, "I know I didn't tape pron over my band performance, did I?"

    :)

  8. Marcade's Avatar
  9. MyOwnWorstEnemy's Avatar


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  10. datagod's Avatar

    There is a chain of grocery stores in Canda called Loblaw's. And yes, the President's name is Bob.

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  11. Jace Hall's Avatar

    To be clear - as a general concept I support the idea of getting the tape content uploaded, sorted and organized. There is no resistance on my part to that idea.

    The challenge is just the time and money it takes to do it.

    If there are 1000 tapes, each with a potential 6 hours of footage, then you are talking about at least 6000 hours of actual time to just capture the footage. No sorting, no identifying, nothing. Just putting a tape in a vcr and walking away for 6 hours and coming back.

    Of course you would have to do that for each tape, unless you are going to personally supervise and examine how much footage is on each tape and only record the exact amount of content. Some tapes might be 5 minutes, other tapes 6 hours - but you would need to spend the time on each tape examining and stopping the vcr at the end of the footage. So that is still a huge amount of time.

    If you wanted to do it more quickly, you would need multiple VCRS and several people to supervise. Not cheap, and still no sorting, identifying, etc. If you wanted to add that responsibility to the people doing the work, well, then it just got more expensive.

    I'm not sure if people realize what kind of condition TG was in just before I acquired it. Let me remind everyone that the database was completely offline, ownership clarity was a contested issue, and TG's tape assets were spread all over everywhere (and lots still remain that way now.)

    There was no real organization to the tapes that I can discern. Just stuff thrown in boxes. Some with labels, some without. Etc.

    TG should just get every bit of evidence they have and put it on the website ASAP. Just upload it and let us sort out what score and player it belongs it too.
    Is way easier said than done I'm afraid.

    It is likely that to do it properly with any speed, I would need to spend at least $50k-100K to pay a 3rd party professional video service to do all the complete work required (given the number of tapes we have) and even then there will be a whole bunch of issues trying to figure out all the information needed for database application.

    Needless to say that the 50k-100k invested into doing this will not be bringing a return on investment any time soon - so that is a long term process on that front for sure.

    In any case, I will eventually get to it at some point regardless.

    I liked the idea of at least potentially uploading 1 tape a week to the site to let the community try to help figure out where it should go. Might be a fun way to engage and also bring new content and activity.

    For now, I'm focused on the dispute queue and engineering is working on the profile upgrade stuff...

  12. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall



    I liked the idea of at least potentially uploading 1 tape a week to the site to let the community try to help figure out where it should go. Might be a fun way to engage and also bring new content and activity.



    Yeah, that's a good idea. I would be a bit nervous uploading tapes that haven't been reviewed first though. Who knows what images could be on some, or what was said by players or bystanders that might offend some peeps. Remember that no one ever expected any of those tapes to ever be made public.

    I don't know if it would help, but years ago a player had to fill in a submission form online, print it out and send the form with the tapes/DVD's. Jace, have you seen those submission forms saved somewhere in the old data base?


    john

    .

  13. thegamer1185's Avatar

    A little **** never hurt anybody. Upload the videos with a statement that says "We are unaware of the details on this tape." People can be offended by kittens so you can't help offending someone. Someone is always offended by something. Damn feelings

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  14. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185

    A little **** never hurt anybody. Upload the videos with a statement that says "We are unaware of the details on this tape." People can be offended by kittens so you can't help offending someone. Someone is always offended by something. Damn feelings

    There tapes from certain former referees (jailed for raping minors) that I would be VERY careful with.

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  15. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod


    There tapes from certain former referees (jailed for raping minors) that I would be VERY careful with.

    didnt the police confiscate, go through and give back? i respect the cops confiscating even video game tapes just in case. but realisitcally i doubt he taped over tg tapes with his filth, also i doubt the cops missed anything. but even still good point, no matter how low the risk, thats a very serious matter.

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  16. Garrett Holland's Avatar

    I think the solution to that risk is simple: require a cred threshold, and have those qualified submit a simple online application and waiver that includes the indemnifying TG against potential action as a result of the approved applicant being offended by the unknown content like a total sissy pansy, and attest that they will report any illegal activities revealed in the footage to TG and/or law enforcement. Include an "unpublish" button to immediately eliminate further access to that specific footage by all other users until TG has an opportunity to review it. If the viewers recognize the performance as their own, they can slap that unpublish button, too, if they're a sissy and don't want anyone to see their gameplay. Remove the ability for any individual member to view tapes again if they abuse the take-down button.

    The required cred would be necessary to avoid some non TG sch-muck putz troll coming up in here and abusing the "unpublish" button.

    Hell, you can even having a running counter of how many analyses each member contributed to the project, since everyone gets off on stats, like yours truly.

    On the web form, you can put a couple fields "potential platform", "potential title", "potential settings", "potential player name", "potential reference to existing record on scoreboard" etc. with a submit button for when the viewer is done.

    LikesSnowflake, Joonas liked this post
    Updated 11-19-2019 at 11:33 AM by Garrett Holland
  17. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark



    Yeah, that's a good idea. I would be a bit nervous uploading tapes that haven't been reviewed first though. Who knows what images could be on some, or what was said by players or bystanders that might offend some peeps. Remember that no one ever expected any of those tapes to ever be made public.

    I don't know if it would help, but years ago a player had to fill in a submission form online, print it out and send the form with the tapes/DVD's. Jace, have you seen those submission forms saved somewhere in the old data base?


    john

    .

    Some of the tapes have the forms folded up inside the tape cases.

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