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thegamer1185
12-08-2019 at 09:04 AM
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Scores entered in PAL rather than NTSC

Need some help from some of you older TG member here. @Barthax , @Ninglendo , @timmell , @Marcade , @RTM @lexmark . I'm looking at the XBox - Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2003 scores. https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/tiger-woods-pga-tour-2003/xbox

Tom Duncan is the only player to compete on the game. I can't be sure which is where I need your guys input, but I believe Tom Duncan was an NTSC player. Most of these scores where entered in the PAL tracks. Not questioning his scores at all, just that they should be moved to the NTSC tracks. What do you guys think as I don't know him? I'm sure it could have happened somewhere but the guy seemed to always compete every track for a game he was playing.

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  1. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    And TBH, I don't play Gamecube, so I really don't ever look at Gamecube subs, lol, tho I like Matthew just fine, so I have no idea on that!

    :)

  2. thegamer1185's Avatar

    So I'm just going to test this out. I'm going to find a PAL version and NTSC version of a game and see if they play. If they do, I'll see if they play differently. Easiest way to test it.

  3. starcrytas's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185

    How does @starcrysta do it for his Gamecube subs? Is the Wii region free and it's just the game? I don't have idea, not calling anybody out, just trying learn how this is done. I believe he has done both PAL and NTSC, wasn't sure if it's a part of the mod on the Wii (which is what my XBox has I think) or does he have separate consoles?

    Speaking of which, if I did buy a PAL console, do I need a different kind of TV or would it just plug in and play to what I have. I have no idea, hence all the help I can get if I am even to consider doing it.

    I use a flat screen TV to play the Gamecube games from Nintendont loaded off of an SD card.

    PAL 50Hz speed is maintained.

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  4. sdwyer138's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185

    Speaking of which, if I did buy a PAL console, do I need a different kind of TV or would it just plug in and play to what I have. I have no idea, hence all the help I can get if I am even to consider doing it.


    I have a region free DVD player, I have watched PAL DVDs on 3 different TVs no problem.

  5. thegamer1185's Avatar

    I'm testing this literally as we speak on an older flat screen. It's a simple video setting I can change. Just for clarity as to what I am doing. I have an NTSC version of TW2003. I have played the game both on the NTSC setting and PAL setting. I can not notice a difference at all. I have a few racing games I will try. I do have a PAL and NTSC version of Jet Set Radio Future ready to go. So I will compare the two versions and get back to you guys about it. If the play the same, then I won't even bother with PAL tracks. If there is a difference, then I guess it becomes whether this allowed to be down or not.

    I don't see why it shouldn't since Matthew is doing it with the Wii, which I have been fine with since day one. Anyway, I'll let you guys know what I find tomorrow. Thanks for the replies.

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  6. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcade

    Can I prove he played in the proper regional settings? Of course not, as I was not a referee to witness his gameplay.

    I competed with Tom on various PAL titles. Performances were not routinely made available to other refs - usually only when a score was deemed worthy to be double-checked (decisions above referee's pay grade) so Marc's statement holds true, referee or not.

  7. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerpoco

    The third is to have a power convertor, a "step-down"(up? I'm waay over my head here already...)convertor box-plugs into NTSC wall outlet, is like a power strip(but a box), has UK/AU style plug inputs-then you plug an actual PAL television in, and the system(with the wonky UK/AU plugs), and play PAL.


    This is actually more the setup I pictured Tom having, I know he was full-on, but obviously I have no idea.


    I also have no idea if anything at all I just said was right, I can't get RF PAL working yet, too cheap, so I'm certainly NOT an expert...

    Tom had several European contacts & imported the consoles.

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  8. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185

    I'm testing this literally as we speak on an older flat screen. It's a simple video setting I can change. Just for clarity as to what I am doing. I have an NTSC version of TW2003. I have played the game both on the NTSC setting and PAL setting. I can not notice a difference at all. I have a few racing games I will try. I do have a PAL and NTSC version of Jet Set Radio Future ready to go. So I will compare the two versions and get back to you guys about it. If the play the same, then I won't even bother with PAL tracks. If there is a difference, then I guess it becomes whether this allowed to be down or not.

    I don't see why it shouldn't since Matthew is doing it with the Wii, which I have been fine with since day one. Anyway, I'll let you guys know what I find tomorrow. Thanks for the replies.


    From what I've seen of Matthew's Wii, it still outputs NTSC signal but the Homebrew stuff forces the game to PAL refresh rates so there's only ever 25 FPS even though the console isn't. Mine's a visual inspection of the submissions only & the devil's in the detail which I don't have. :P


    [Edit:] got to the last page & discovered Matthew's already answered. :D

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    Updated 12-09-2019 at 12:47 AM by Barthax
  9. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Well, my XBox console is region free. However, I don't believe it is changing the frame rate. I can play PAL and NTSC games on it, but it's all at the frame rate of NTSC. Not sure if back in the day there was a way to figure this out. I have the V. 1.0 Xbox and an earlier BIOS of the mod chip and I have no intentions of screwing with what I know already works. So I guess I'm NTSC bound only.

  10. thegamer1185's Avatar

    AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAHHHHHHHAAAAA (Ganondorf laugh from OoT, not WW) Well everyone, I found it. Turns out it's exactly like @Barthax feels when he plays games!! I've never done this, it's so much slower I guess is how I would explain it?? Weird.

    I will submit a run for an NTSC score and PAL score so you experts can compare the differences. I missed my first putt short because I pulled it back to NTSC speed, not PAL speed, haha. This is so great. I have a huge shitty grin on my face. It's X-Mas 16 days early for the this guy. I didn't even know this thing could that.

    Likesstarcrytas liked this post
    Updated 12-09-2019 at 09:49 AM by thegamer1185
  11. thegamer1185's Avatar

    And as you guys have all said, the TV most definitely notices the setting differences. It's 480P for NTSC, and it changes to 574 or something when in PAL. Seriously, this is so cool to me. Still grinning!

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  12. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185

    And as you guys have all said, the TV most definitely notices the setting differences. It's 480P for NTSC, and it changes to 574 or something when in PAL. Seriously, this is so cool to me. Still grinning!


    Note that if you're playing the NTSC version of the game on a system running PAL synchronisation, the NTSC may often play slower than a PAL game on a PAL system. The NTSC game is expecting ~60 vertical syncs each second and is tying the speed of the game to that expectation. Suddenly there's only 50 vertical syncs each second and so the game runs much slower. The PAL Xbox games were (mostly) created with the knowledge they could be run in PAL or PAL-60 (NTSC equivalent speed) modes and so were programmed to check (or blatantly switch back to PAL-50 in some cases: hence "mostly" earlier). A PAL-50 game is expecting to only get 50 veritical syncs each second and is likely to have been programmed to do more in between each sync than the NTSC equivalent game. NTSC game at 50Hz = slow NTSC game but this does not equate to a PAL game running at 50Hz without ripping apart the entire program to know for certain.

    This is different from the PAL game on NTSC with software butchering the speed of the PAL game (Nintendont on Wii).

  13. thegamer1185's Avatar

    That makes sense. So you are thinking that if I have a PAL game being played on PAL settings it won't "feel" as slow as the an NTSC game being played on PAL settings? Well, I will definitely test that out. I want to compete on PAL games and that makes sense the PAL game on PAL settings will run smoother than NTSC on PAL settings. Thanks for the info. This is why we're here.

  14. thegamer1185's Avatar

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/212109-Xbox-Tiger-Woods-PGA-Tour-2003-PAL-Pebble-Beach-Easy-Difficulty-Fewest-Strokes-0-Kyle-Nelson

    This is the sample of my XBox's video setting changes. The PAL game doesn't even play and forces a reset on NTSC video settings. The NTSC game plays on PAL but the audio is instantly ahead of the video. I believe this works as it should like the Wii console does. PAL game plays perfectly on PAL video settings says Captain Obvious.

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