On the face of it, this is an understandable and welcome change to the confusion (from my perspective) that happened with the MultiVerse scenario.

I would suggest, for the hindsight recording of entire threads: when such a change is made, automate a new comment into the thread to signify when the change occurs. This will mean that people can view the thread and understand at what point in the discussion the change occurred.

Prediction: people will still vote in a thread based on the initial comments and not read through. Can't teach everyone, meh. :P

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Whenever I read about TG admin's getting involved with something, I walk away . . .

Much appreciated. I think it is right that a typo should be corrected, without nullifying a valid submission in its content.
I only have two concerns:
1) What happens if a player does not correct a typo, or says to correct it and then never does? Eternal limbo?
2) Regarding the Multiversus bounty, some submissions have already been rejected due to an incorrect score compared to what was detected in the related video. They were rejected even if in some cases the player had requested the score correction. If you now go to correct the wrong scores (if requested) of the submissions still awaiting adjudication, it would cause unequal treatment between participants.

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I am a little confused as to how this point applies while also not requiring Multiversus submitters to have necessary submission points.

1 - The user will incur additional submission point cost - the same submission point cost as a new submission.

During the Multiversus event, none of the submitters were required to use submission points for new submissions. They submitted repeatedly while only having the initial 3 submission points and never earning any new points.

Will the adjusted rules also change to require people to have submission points, by reviewing other submissions, prior to submitting any change or new submission?

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Originally Posted by Troy_Whelan

I am a little confused as to how this point applies while also not requiring Multiversus submitters to have necessary submission points.

1 - The user will incur additional submission point cost - the same submission point cost as a new submission.

During the Multiversus event, none of the submitters were required to use submission points for new submissions. They submitted repeatedly while only having the initial 3 submission points and never earning any new points.

Will the adjusted rules also change to require people to have submission points, by reviewing other submissions, prior to submitting any change or new submission?

I had wondered how some, apparently new, people were able to submit multiple times but then just cast the thought aside as we have a lurkers that vote. You've piqued my curiosity on it again.

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Very very glad to see this change! I think it will be a huge help in supporting limited-time contests like the Challenges while also giving newcomers/regulars/veterans the chance to edit simple data entry errors. Great news

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Originally Posted by Troy_Whelan

I am a little confused as to how this point applies while also not requiring Multiversus submitters to have necessary submission points.

1 - The user will incur additional submission point cost - the same submission point cost as a new submission.

During the Multiversus event, none of the submitters were required to use submission points for new submissions. They submitted repeatedly while only having the initial 3 submission points and never earning any new points.

Will the adjusted rules also change to require people to have submission points, by reviewing other submissions, prior to submitting any change or new submission?

If people were submitting multiple times without earning submission points, I think it was a glitch in the matrix for this contest. In previous contests I recall players asking how they could submit a higher score so I started to include that boilerplate explanation in the challenge submission threads including MultiVersus. My understanding is that the Challenge contests are designed to use regular TGSAP infrastructure including the need for submission points for subsequent submissions (based on how I saw the other challenges play out) so maybe there was something with the challenge upload portal and that didn’t track/check for points. If so, I imagine TG will address this glitch so points will be required for future challenges as outlined in the new policy.

Originally Posted by Troy_Whelan

During the Multiversus event, none of the submitters were required to use submission points for new submissions. They submitted repeatedly while only having the initial 3 submission points and never earning any new points.

In a few early cases, we had to completely remove entire submissions, including the associated threads, due to challenges with our system handling 10GB+ file uploads. When this occurred, the affected users had their submission points restored. These restored points were always the free submission credit that new users receive upon account creation. It’s important to note that all participants in the Multiversus challenge were required to use submission points to participate.

The vast majority of participants in the challenge were new users, so they utilized their free first submission credit for their entries. However, they were limited to one submission unless they earned additional points through participation in the voting system, just like any other user.

Additionally, a bug emerged that caused some submissions to be duplicated. This resulted in two identical submissions appearing for the same user, though this was not due to any action on their part. The issue stemmed from communication errors within the TG API, which is utilized by ThecePlay’s website. We believe this problem has since been resolved by @admin staff .

Originally Posted by Troy_Whelan

Will the adjusted rules also change to require people to have submission points, by reviewing other submissions, prior to submitting any change or new submission?

Yes. When the actual feature is implemented, it will deduct the required SP before allowing the score claim change to go through. If the user doesnt have the SP, they will not be able to utilize the function.

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Originally Posted by TWIN GALAXIES

Yes. When the actual feature is implemented, it will deduct the required SP before allowing the score claim change to go through. If the user doesnt have the SP, they will not be able to utilize the function.

As a concern for new users in a time-limited event: is the hurdle of earning SP actually a detriment to the perception of the service? It is already a hurdle for new users' normal use to understand and get to grips with. Many, obviously, do get to grips with it over time but inside a time-limited event is it not a very steep learning curve? The user not only has to understand what actions to perform but then also find multiple somethings that are likely (which they have no experience of) to be successfully adjudicated.

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Originally Posted by Germano D'Alessandro

Much appreciated. I think it is right that a typo should be corrected, without nullifying a valid submission in its content.
I only have two concerns:
1) What happens if a player does not correct a typo, or says to correct it and then never does? Eternal limbo?
2) Regarding the Multiversus bounty, some submissions have already been rejected due to an incorrect score compared to what was detected in the related video. They were rejected even if in some cases the player had requested the score correction. If you now go to correct the wrong scores (if requested) of the submissions still awaiting adjudication, it would cause unequal treatment between participants.

Answers:

1. 1. ) The score will be rejected if the player does not make the necessary correction before the adjudication process concludes. If the correction is not made in time, the submission will be rightfully denied, and the player will need to resubmit.

2. 2. ) We will not retroactively force previously adjudicated performances back into adjudication. However, in this situation, this approach is ok because the Multiversus challenge is a unique scenario. Unlike a regular TG leaderboard, the primary purpose of this particular challenge leaderboard and Twin Galaxies' authentication process is to provide Warner Bros. with legitimate records of who successfully completed their challenge, and for all those participants to receive the prizes they deserve.

To ensure fair treatment for all affected players, we are compiling a list of performances rejected solely due to score claim count errors. Since these errors were authenticated as the sole reason for rejection, we will provide this additional authenticated list to Warner Bros. alongside the finalized leaderboard winners. We will strongly recommend that Warner Bros. consider these scores for prizing eligibility, and they will most likely fulfill the associated rewards.

Obviously, having to do all this is not ideal, but we feel that this is a reasonable approach and will handle any specific issues related to this challenge on a case-by-case basis as needed. We are keeping a close eye on it.

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Originally Posted by TWIN GALAXIES

...

It’s important to note that all participants in the Multiversus challenge were required to use submission points to participate.

The vast majority of participants in the challenge were new users, so they utilized their free first submission credit for their entries. However, they were limited to one submission unless they earned additional points through participation in the voting system, just like any other user.

...

I think there are multiple scenarios in play here. The majority of what you posted is correct, however there seem to be anomalies. As an example, look at gamer Gamergirl_Rukia1. There are 2 Rejected submissions with different reasons, 2 Accepted with the same score of 5 (aligning with your description), and also 2 more In Progress with the same score of 9 (aligning with your description). All of these were submitted with no additional submission points being earned, so there were 4 submissions (2 of which created duplicates for 6 total) from the initial 3 submission points as all were submitted closely together without enough time to earn submission points. Just trying to close a loophole for the future as this gap will circumvent your new ruleset.

Originally Posted by Barthax

As a concern for new users in a time-limited event: is the hurdle of earning SP actually a detriment to the perception of the service? It is already a hurdle for new users' normal use to understand and get to grips with. Many, obviously, do get to grips with it over time but inside a time-limited event is it not a very steep learning curve? The user not only has to understand what actions to perform but then also find multiple somethings that are likely (which they have no experience of) to be successfully adjudicated.

Ah, this is where things start to get interesting!

For the most part, your sentiment is accurate. The need for new users to quickly learn how to earn Submission Points (SP) does create some friction. However, in every ThecePlay challenge we've run so far, some new users do begin voting—primarily on submissions competing with their own. This allows them to evaluate their competition, learn from others’ performances, and ensure no cheating is occurring against them.

That said, in an ideal scenario, the challenge partner (in this case, Warner Bros.) would likely prefer participants to submit as much as they want without needing to earn SP.

Unfortunately, our system doesn’t allow SP to materialize out of thin air. All Submission Points must be generated through adjudication decisions. Twin Galaxies can’t "print SP" the way governments print money. This is fundamental to how TGSAP operates, as it recalculates SP and Credibility Ratings (CR) based on successful disputes and changes to previous adjudications.

The only way to bypass the need for participants to earn SP is to "preload" a challenge with SP that gets consumed with each submission. For example, if a partner anticipates up to 1,000 submissions, the challenge would need to be preloaded with 3,000 SP (at three SP per submission). But where does that SP come from? The Twin Galaxies community.

Essentially, TG will eventually need to "purchase" SP from community adjudicators to preload challenges. The cost of this SP could then be passed on to the partner creating the challenge.

This dynamic introduces the potential for SP to hold real monetary value. Adjudicators could earn tangible value from their efforts because of the commercial demand for these "harvested" SP.

In this scenario, everyone benefits: adjudicators gain real value, submitters can participate more freely, and partners have a smoother process.

Imagine, getting paid to watch video game performances. TG would literally the inverse of something like Twitch, where you pay them a subscription to watch video game performances ad free.

Anyway, this is one reason why the success of these early ThecePlay challenges, like Multiversus, is so important. Many companies in the industry are observing closely and considering similar opportunities.

Success leads to a healthier, more diverse, and growing TG community—and greater relevance for TG overall. As TG’s relevance grows, each member’s personal records and contributions gain broader recognition and value.

This is a step-by-step process and won’t happen overnight, but TG and its community are making real progress. Collective success depends on all of us working together. While I can contribute as the Head Custodian, it’s a team effort.

I hope that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Jace Hall

Essentially, TG will eventually need to "purchase" SP from community adjudicators to preload challenges. The cost of this SP could then be passed on to the partner creating the challenge.

This dynamic introduces the potential for SP to hold real monetary value. Adjudicators could earn tangible value from their efforts because of the commercial demand for these "harvested" SP.

Sounds like a Bounty where gifting SP is the action, not playing a game. :D

Originally Posted by Troy_Whelan

I think there are multiple scenarios in play here. The majority of what you posted is correct, however there seem to be anomalies. As an example, look at gamer Gamergirl_Rukia1. There are 2 Rejected submissions with different reasons, 2 Accepted with the same score of 5 (aligning with your description), and also 2 more In Progress with the same score of 9 (aligning with your description). All of these were submitted with no additional submission points being earned, so there were 4 submissions (2 of which created duplicates for 6 total) from the initial 3 submission points as all were submitted closely together without enough time to earn submission points. Just trying to close a loophole for the future as this gap will circumvent your new ruleset.

In the case of Gamergirl_Rukia1, something highly unusual was happening. None of the user’s submissions were appearing on the leaderboard—they seemed to vanish into thin air. This issue was only discovered a day or two ago.

As evidence of the anomaly, take a closer look at the user’s submissions. In the message/info/rule section, only one submission includes details like the track, rules, etc. That specific submission was manually adjusted by @admin staff to investigate what went wrong.

The user currently has two "accepted" submissions: the one that was fixed and another that still lacks track information or other details, even though it was accepted.

It’s possible that this glitch also caused the user’s SP not to be deducted for their submissions. I don't know. Since the system wasn’t properly assigning their submissions to a track, it may not have consumed the user’s free submission token. This is speculative, but the user seems to be relatively new and perhaps wouldn’t have realized anything unusual was happening.

Originally Posted by Jace Hall

...

As evidence of the anomaly, take a closer look at the user’s submissions. In the message/info/rule section, only one submission includes details like the track, rules, etc. That specific submission was manually adjusted by @admin staff to investigate what went wrong.

...

There is quite a bit of this. I identified 17 occurrences, noted in the admin staff's Feed, of this in Active Submissions for TG to address and it was ignored.

Originally Posted by Troy_Whelan

There is quite a bit of this. I identified 17 occurrences, noted in the admin staff's Feed, of this in Active Submissions for TG to address and it was ignored.

if you can, please create a document with a list of links to these performances and email it to [email protected]

Originally Posted by Jace Hall

if you can, please create a document with a list of links to these performances and email it to [email protected]

Done, but I would have thought this post was enough. Since these were not acted upon, some are now Accepted and I identified those in the email as well.

Im just loving this picture haha

Has a touch of Jack Kirby or something. Living Tribunal, Kang the Conqueror vibes

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Thank you, Twin Galaxies. I'm prone to mistype trust me.

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How much time does a TG member have to change their incorrect score before being submission being removed voted no rejected?

Originally Posted by TWIN GALAXIES

Answers:

1. 1. ) The score will be rejected if the player does not make the necessary correction before the adjudication process concludes. If the correction is not made in time, the submission will be rightfully denied, and the player will need to resubmit.

2. 2. ) We will not retroactively force previously adjudicated performances back into adjudication. However, in this situation, this approach is ok because the Multiversus challenge is a unique scenario. Unlike a regular TG leaderboard, the primary purpose of this particular challenge leaderboard and Twin Galaxies' authentication process is to provide Warner Bros. with legitimate records of who successfully completed their challenge, and for all those participants to receive the prizes they deserve.

To ensure fair treatment for all affected players, we are compiling a list of performances rejected solely due to score claim count errors. Since these errors were authenticated as the sole reason for rejection, we will provide this additional authenticated list to Warner Bros. alongside the finalized leaderboard winners. We will strongly recommend that Warner Bros. consider these scores for prizing eligibility, and they will most likely fulfill the associated rewards.

Obviously, having to do all this is not ideal, but we feel that this is a reasonable approach and will handle any specific issues related to this challenge on a case-by-case basis as needed. We are keeping a close eye on it.