11-17-2020 at 12:54 PM
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The INPs...resurface

Behold all the INPs that were submitted to TG between 2005-2012.


These INPs should be individually attached to the records that are posted on the corresponding leaderboards.

This would have to be done manually by someone. TG is a long way away from spending the kind of resources it would require to do this on its own.

What does the community suggest the best course of action is with this? Let's discuss.

  1. Snowflake's Avatar

    for the most part we're accurate, let anyone enter a link to the score they think the inp goes to. when an inp reaches X votes after Y time and no dissent put it through.

    if theres any dissent, but it through tgsap

    x and y would have to be determined.

    but really think of how many things are unanimous. i'm sure a great many of these would reach an easy consensus, thereby severely reducing the stack, possibly to a small enough stack that you do have the resources for

  2. D.B. Cooper's Avatar

    I would volunteer some of my time to get this sorted. When folks used the correct file naming it will be pretty easy to match inp's with scores on the scoreboard. Others will be harder and some will be impossible because the scores don't exist on the scoreboard anymore.

    There is also the issue that some people chose to not have their inp's made public. Personally I don't care about this as it should have never been an option. But I'm also guessing that when these inp's are exposed, there is going to be more controversy over some of the scores and probably more disputes opened. Which I think is a good thing but will require more TG resources to resolve.

  3. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by D.B. Cooper

    There is also the issue that some people chose to not have their inp's made public.

    Hi, Dick. As you would remember, we used to have to fill in a separate form with details, name, score, and if you wanted the recording public or not and other stuff. I doubt that form would have been attached to the inp file? Maybe TG still has all those forms on file somewhere? Just makes the task more time consuming to cross check?



  4. Barra's Avatar


    We would definitely need some sort of approval process where an individual/TG proposes an INP against a score and it is voted on by the community and/or TG admin

    Another option is to make them all publicly accessible and then people can dispute current scores and post the relevant INP. I'm guessing there will be a large number of invalid scores once we start digging into things.

    Previously hidden INPs are irrelevant in my opinion. Its 2020, not 2005. We should keep moving beyond that era of gaming as fast as we can.

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  5. thegamer1185's Avatar

    I know a guy who does nothing all winter long. If that person somehow where given a small sample of these INP's to sort through to make sure there are no bugs in any systems or while attaching the file to the correct score, I'm sure he could spend a few hours a day doing this. It's me, the guy is me. I'm volunteering to do some of this if there is such a way to do it.

    Many of those files already appear to have some sort of player name/game name/score in them so while time consuming, as mentioned above some would actually be pretty easy to find and attach.

  6. xelnia's Avatar

    I've been known to look at INPs on occasion.

  7. redelf's Avatar

    Depends on how you want them attached. Are these to be treated as new scores and need to go through the adjudication process, video, analysis, and voting.

    Or do you want them just attached as if they have already been accepted but can now be challenged by the dispute system.

    Either way you are going to need the communities help as you've stated. If you just want them attached you are going to have to allow some members to enter data into your database. So at this point you will have to show the data in the form that it needs to be and allow members to enter data into a spreadsheet or form that TG can then upload to their database and incorporate all the new data.

    I'm guessing that the community would love to help with this project and would self review and verify all data. Start with a small sample of scores and make sure things are working and then unleash the full project.

    Yeah it's going to be a long project, it could take years depending on the input criteria and amount of help.

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  8. RMacauley's Avatar

    2005 and 2006 would probably have 3 different MAME versions (Wolf 78, Wolf 101 and Wolf 106) which would possibly make analysis a bit harder if required.

    As for my submissions (and I see 2 of them in the screenshot) I always made them public and wouldn't mind seeing a few again if nothing else to try and figure out how the hell I got some of those scores back then. I've been trying to beat some of my old scores to submit under TGSAP and it's easier said than done after all these years

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  9. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by RMacauley

    2005 and 2006 would probably have 3 different MAME versions (Wolf 78, Wolf 101 and Wolf 106) which would possibly make analysis a bit harder if required.

    There were a number of AlphaMAME versions used prior to those as well as the original versions of TG MAME back in the 0.3x era.

    I notice the folders in the screenshot show 2005. The web site was re-written in 2004 so I would hope that the 2005 folder contains even older INPs that were simply attached in 2005 during the web site transition (Zip files hold the original file dates as part of their internal meta information).

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  10. Barthax's Avatar

    Thinking "out loud", TG could create a simple (Google/Microsoft) spreadsheet which lists the files and invite some uses to process the likely owner based on the file names. Should be possible to rapidly split the set into likely knowns & unknowns. Sets of files could then be farmed out to volunteers for better cross-referencing of information.

    I know there were time periods where some MAME referees would also throw out any INP which didn't fit a specific "easy filename" pattern. So, in among these files, will be perfectly valid INPs that were original rejected for really petty reasons. However, they obviously wouldn't necessarily meet todays standards of submission.

  11. gavv's Avatar

    I know i've barely submiitted mame, from back in 2005, but I would like to see if any of those inps are there in the archive :).

  12. TWIN GALAXIES's Avatar

    Forgive the delay on this as we've been busy. This is all great feedback and we will take steps very soon to make decisions and get this going!

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